King Henry Clone: Input?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by antlerwrestler19, Nov 13, 2012.

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  1. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    Looking to clone Goose Island's King Henry, because after consuming and trading my remaining bottles away, I figured I'll never lay my taste buds on that beauty again.

    Here's the LINK to GI's website, it gives you a very brief overview of the recipe, I need your knowledge and opinions to decipher it into something close-ish. I took a look at another website that had a clone listed and we damn near came up with the same recipe, which I thought was cool.

    I've got this written up so far:

    OG: 1.134
    FG: 1.033
    ABV: 13.7%
    IBUs: 59.4
    SRM: 25.1

    22lbs Maris Otter
    1lb 8oz Crystal Wheat
    1lb Crystal 120
    4oz Dark Chocolate
    Mash @154F for 60minutes
    Boil for 120 minutes - separate one gallon of first runnings and boil down into about half of its original volume - add to full boil and begin boil/time.

    Pilgrim bittered to 42.5IBUs @60minutes (2oz 11.5aa)
    Styrian bittered to 11.5IBUs @30minutes (1.5oz @5.4aa)
    Styrian bittered to 6IBUs @10minutes (1.5oz @5.4aa)

    Now obviously I'll have to adjust the hops if the AAs very greatly. This is listed for 5 gallons, but I'm doing a double batch (mash twice and boil twice, separately) in order to fill my 10 gallon conical. Also, I've got a couple 6 gallon oak barrels, one of which I plan to soak with a couple bottles of '12 Bourbon County Stout and a small amount of Buffalo Trace (I know, not Pappy 23, but it's my bourbon of choice....and affordable!). Once the barrel is filled the remainder will hit bottles where it will set and wait until it's ready to drink. I think This is looking pretty solid so far, but any insight from the more experienced brewers would be cool.

    Cheers,

    Kyle
     
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  2. ShawDeuce22

    ShawDeuce22 Crusader (457) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts

    #1 This recipe sounds awesome and no matter how it turns out for you I might be trying it

    b) I'm curious about why you would do this
    It's just the first time I've seen this method

    Cheers
     
  3. genuinedisciple

    genuinedisciple Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Michigan


    I expect a bottle to review :slight_smile:
     
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  4. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    By boiling my first runnings down I believe I get a ton more caramelization and add a lot more depth than you can't get by just layering specialty malts. It should add complexity and deep caremel notes all while helping with that insanely high gravity as well. The technical terminology refers to it as Maillard Reactions - a browning reaction caused by external heat wherein a sugar (glucose) and an amino acid form a complex, and this product has a role is various subsequent reactions that yield pigments and melanoidins. Melanoidins are basically just strong flavor compounds produced while browning the malt.

    Hope this helps!

    Cheers
     
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  5. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    You got it buddy. We'll set something up once this daunting task is complete.
     
  6. Bay01

    Bay01 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2008 Illinois

    I came up with a very similar recipe based on the GI data. My only difference is 1lb less Pale malt and 2lbs of C120. I assumed American two row for the pale malt portion but really have nothing to back that up.
     
  7. Bluecane

    Bluecane Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2011 New York

    I know nothing of homebrewing, but this sounds like an absurdly cool undertaking. Props to you! Good luck, and I it turns out just like you want it to be.
     
  8. axeman9182

    axeman9182 Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2009 New Jersey

    Looks like a pretty tasty recipe. The one thing I might suggest is to lower the mash temperature a couple degrees. I brewed a big barleywine over the summer that started lower (1.112) and finished almost as high as your target FG (1.030) despite me using 100% base malt and mashing at 151. Granted, I was using a less attenuative English yeast strain (Wyeast 1968), but I'd be worried about getting the beer down as far as you'd like it to go.
     
  9. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    You should consider pitching some yeast.

    I would mash at 148-150F for 2 hours, especially if you are boiling down first runnings.

    I would up the IBUs to a hundred or so.
     
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  10. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    I forgot to add, Wyeast 1968......a MONSTER of a starter over a week's time.

    I am going to mash lower, probably 149 for 90 minutes now.

    And the 60 IBUs was taken from Goose Island's provided info so I plan to stick there. KH didn't have a ton of hop presence to me, just enough to let you know it was there and justify the bold assertive flavors of the malt and barrel aspects.
     
  11. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    I'm going with MO to make it a truer to style English Barleywine, I suppose.
     
  12. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    I forgot about the barrel, that will cut the effect of the residual sugar.
     
  13. Soonami

    Soonami Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    SRM of 25 seems a little dark to me, is that calculation right? I'm not sure what it should be based on the recipe, but it doesn't seem like it should be that dark. Also, I remember the beer looking like 15-18, not 25.

    Like others have mentioned, I would not mash at 154, I would do 149 for 90 minutes. You really want to give both beta and alpha amylase a chance to chew through this malt or else you'll have trouble fermenting down.

    You don't specify a yeast and I'm not sure what GI uses, but whatever it is, I'd recommend brewing a pale ale first and pitching this beer on the whole yeast cake. It's gonna need a shit ton. MrMalty calculation for 10+ gallons of a 1.132 OG beer, means you'll need almost 1 Trillion yeast cells, that's 10 smack packs or White Labs vials. You'd need a 2 gallon starter to have enough yeast.

    I would not do this. If you've tasted KH, you'd recognize that the bitterness really is 60 or less. I'm also not sure if you will benefit from the late hops as they aren't really that presernt in my tasting of the beer.
     
  14. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    Ya i made some adjustments and listed them above, they match pretty well with what you're saying.

    I too am concerned with my SRM but I'm worried if I lower the amounts of the specialty malts it will be lacking in complexity and boldness. Perhaps I should count on the Bourbon County Stout and Buffalo Trace soaked barrel to deliver more flavor if I do drop some of the specialty malts??
     
  15. Soonami

    Soonami Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    I think those replies came while I was typing mine.

    You don't really need to worry about lackign complexity with Maris Otter as a base malt and if you are going to actually age in a wooden barrel that has BCBS and BT in it
     
  16. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    Step one: figure out a clone recipe for Rare.

    I kid, but honestly, that recipe looks excellent. A clone of this beer is going to be a tricky thing, and I only had the king once and have had ill luck brewing big beers, so I can't really comment on if this will get you there. That said, I would definitely like to hear updates on this brew and, if it goes well, would love to swap some homebrews for a bottle. I've been trying to build up the courage to brew a big special barleywine and put it in a 5 gallon barrel, but that is a lot of time a scratch to brew a beer like that.
     
  17. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

  18. ArchEnemyBrew

    ArchEnemyBrew Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2010 Washington

    What temp do you plan to pitch the yeast at?
     
  19. antlerwrestler19

    antlerwrestler19 Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2010 Nebraska

    I'm thinking I'll shoot for 64F for the beginning of fermentation and raise it 2F every 24 hours until I reach 70F so it's kicking out some fruity byproducts towards the end - I get a lot of dark fruits such as raisin and currant in KH's yeast flavor profile. I also plan to pump oxygen into it not only for initial fermentation, but twice more - after the initial 24 hours and again at 48 hours. Also, a thorough diacetyl will be needed.
     
  20. willandperry

    willandperry Initiate (0) Sep 15, 2011 Colorado

    I agree with a few other post. I would love to swap some homebrews for a bottle.
    When do you plan on brewing this beer? How long are you planning to age the beer in the barrels? As long as the actual KH?
     
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