Want to get into homebrewing... what to get and tips?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by nhindian, Mar 18, 2013.

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  1. nhindian

    nhindian Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I know usually people start with extract beers, but would it be foolish to just jump right into all-grain? Is it worth buying a whole kit or would buying pieces separately be the way to go?
     
  2. mindfuldave

    mindfuldave Savant (1,089) Mar 22, 2011 New Jersey

    If your really willing to learn and do numerous batches, I would go straight to AG. If you are just looking to throw a couple beers together here and there, I would do extract or Partial Mash. Get a kit, you usually wind up getting those pieces anyway and might as well just get them all at once.
     
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,326) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Pooh-Bah Society

    It's not impossible to start off with all grain, but I'd highly recommend that you learn from someone who's already good at it before starting yourself. My first batch was a lesson from a great all grain brewer (we split the batch in half and I kept half of it and bottled it myself). Immensely helpful.

    Most noobs start off with extract batches, then move to partial mash, then finally to all grain. The equipment for extract and partial mash is also useful in all grain, so there's only "upgrade to all grain" not "wasted money on useless equipment back in the partial mashing days."

    You'll need a good boil pot, bigger than five gallons, with enough heat to get it boiling. Stovetops generally don't cut it here. A turkey fryer setup will probably work great (that's what I use).

    You'll also need to be able to cool your boiling wort and keep your beer cool whilst it ferments. And by "keep it cool while it ferments" I mean like NO hotter than 70F, but preferably LESS than that ambient temperature. I keep mine at 64-66 and this requires a freezer with a johnson controller (not exactly cheep if you don't already have it). If you can't do the temperature thing, and you live in a hot climate and your AC doesn't keep your house in the mid to high 60's, you're kinda sunk already without getting significant equipment (or taking significant steps to keep your beer cool without a freezer/controller, but we're not that far yet). That's the bad news.

    the good news...

    Any reasonable starter kit will do you fine. The biggest issue is your boil (you need a big enough pot and enough heat) and temperature control (you need to cool the wort after it's boiled, pitch the yeast at low enough temperatures, preferably in the sixties, and keep it cool during the entirety of fermentation).

    I would also go to your local homebrew store, if you have one, and talk to them.

    Also, read "how to brew" by palmer. A solid knowledge base will do you far better than any expensive equipment will.

    I've alerted scurvy311 who has a very good detailed noob post that you should read. it should get posted here soon. I just don't have the link.
     
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  4. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    I started with AG because several friends had started extract and, after like 3 brews, were already making the shift. I enjoy cooking, so the whole idea of having full control of every step of the process of going from recipe to finished product appealed to me. I also like to tinker and have a lot of time on my hands during the summers (teacher), so reading up on brewing message boards got me all excited about the DIY side of the hobby. If you are somewhat handy and enjoy building things, then definitely consider that aspect of AG brewing as a big reason to jump right in (I started simple with the basics like converting a cooler to a mash tun, soldering a copper manifold, etc. and added to my setup as I went with a pump, fermentation chamber, etc). With a mash tun, turkey fryer burner and pots capable of full-volume boils (I got lucky and was gifted two kegs for vessels right away), wort chiller, some software to do the math for you, and some basic recipes, it's really not too difficult to get started.

    AG brewing can run from pretty simple to the sky's the limit in terms of complexity, depending on how much time, dough, and upgrading you want to put into it. Careful, equipment can get pricey if you start going down the road of blinging out a system. There's something that's just great fun about using cobbled together parts that I've built myself to make beer from scratch.
     
  5. ventura78

    ventura78 Pundit (960) Nov 22, 2003 Massachusetts

    If you want to be in it for the long haul I would go all grain and buy separately. Look on ebay for a 10 and 20 gallon pot. Find a 50 qt cooler on sale at walmart, buy a copy of how to brew by palmer. ( have to run, I'm making a starter)
     
  6. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

  7. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,023) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society

    foolish? no.
    premature? possibly.
    everything you need to brew extract you will need for all grain, so there is not anything to be gained by skipping the extract part of the learning curve.

    just be sure to know that something like 90% of homebrewers use exract exclusively and are very happy with the results. in fact, more than a few award winning beers are partial mash brews, so even the fanatics are using extract. nothing wrong with DME. (i've got a partial mash going now.)

    if you are the kind that is committed and knows it, then yeah, go ahead and get an all grain set up. the learning curve is steep. you will probably be sur la merde for sure.
    be sure to post as you need guidance. homebrewers love to talk shit about their brewhouse.
    Cheers.
     
  8. nicholasb

    nicholasb Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2005 Michigan

    All-grain brewing requires a significant investment. Even if you can fabricate, you're going to find plenty of ways to spend money.

    I would urge you to try partial mashes first. Get to know someone at your LHBS and explain what you aim to do. There are lots of different kits out there. Some kits are for guys who plan to brew in their kitchens their whole lives and others make more sense for guys like you. I mean, that immersion chiller that hooks up to the kitchen tap might seem pretty slick when you're doing a partial mash, but it'll be of no use to you when you move into AG brewing. (Once you get to the point that you need a chiller, you might as well cut to the chase and get a plate chiller.)
    I agree with those who suggested buying a stainless pot, even in the early stages, something larger than 5g being suitable. A 15g or 20g pot is ideal but that requires an investment.

    A turkey fryer and a couple of propane tanks.

    Build yourself a mash tun: http://www.brewersfriend.com/2009/01/12/bulkhead-for-cooler-style-mash-lauter-tun/

    There are some other little things that can make your life easier: carboy handles, that little widget that slides into the autosiphon hose and aerates the wort, a plan for disposing of spent grain.
     
  9. alysmith4

    alysmith4 Initiate (0) Feb 11, 2005 District of Columbia

    All I'll add is to buy the components separately. (Oh and definitely get an auto-siphon!)
     
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  10. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,111) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    This is good information that I have been accumulating. It gets discussed quite often.
    PART 1 of 2
    Read: How to Brew, by John Palmer
    http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

    If you are still interested, then buy the book. Usually it is the other way around, but the book is more up to date than the site.
    Also check out The Joy of Homebrewing.

    Also check out: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/what-would-be-in-your-essential-homebrewers-library.55709/
    There is lots of good texts, links, and information.

    Also: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/101/

    Scurvy311 said:
    Equipment: do a litte research then decide on what you will need. It will depend on what you already have that you can repurpose and also how deep you want to get into it.

    You can also do a beer advocate forum search for:
    Absolute noob
    Absolute beginner
    Best kit or best homebrew kit

    Beer advocate also has a decent search feature for whatever else you are looking for

    Or you can just post a question on the forum.

    Then when you are ready for recipe info:
    Listen for free to The Brewing Network's Jamil Show podcasts on iTunes. They are broken down by style, but they all have good information in them. Some of the shows are much more than just style guidelines and recipe information. You can buy the book "brewing Classic Styles" by Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer

    Then if you need more in depth information there is also:
    Brew Strong podcasts for free on iTunes
    A subscription to Zymurgy and/or Brew Your Own magazine

    There are other homebrew forums, but bad advice is shot down pretty quickly on this forum AND backed up with solid information and/or experience. I have never found the need to go outside BA. And tons of good information online, just understand that not all of it is good, and some of it is really really bad.I

    Do you have a hydrometer? That is the most reliable method of determining when the yeast have consumed all the sugar they can. BUT, that by no means is an indication of where the yeast stop working. The hardest thing to learn is to fight the urge to do something just for the sake of doing something. I like 2 weeks in primary for pale ales, but that is not an answer that is dependable. When 2 hygrometer readings a few days apart are identical, then wait longer. The yeast still have work to do. The best advice I can give is brew often, brew with a consistent process, take good notes, get to know what you can expect, and forgive yourself for mistakes as long as you learn from them.

    The airlock is not a quantative indicator of fermentation completion or speed of fermentation. Use your hydrometer (or go to the LHBS and purchase one). Take 2 readings a couple days apart. If the readings are the same, fermentation is done. I tend to leave the beer on yeast a few more days to allow them to reabsorb less than desired byproducts.

    ------------
    JimSmetana said:
    Cannot beat this!
    http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...arter-kits/essential-brewing-starter-kit.html

    Ipas-for-life said:
    Got this kit for my brother for christmas. Thought it was a good price. I just added on a 8oz bottle of starsan and he can buy the bottle caps. https://bellsbeer.com/store/product...ewing-Equipment-Kit-w{47}-Better-Bottle®.html

    By: reverseapachemaster
    If you have a local homebrew shop they usually carry starter kits of all the basic equipment and then you just need to buy a suitable kettle. You can buy those at the same place but you might have something at home/parents have something that is suitable to start with and you can upgrade later.The basic equipment kits are mostly all you need other than the kettle. I've been brewing for 3.5 years and still use the same stuff as my primary equipment.

    If you don't have a local shop, midwest supplies frequently runs groupons for the starter equipment kits for I think $60. You probably have to pay shipping on top of it but it might be a little cheaper than ordering at other places online or even locally.

    Lots of people are getting into the hobby and deciding they don't like what they are making or don't want to put in the work and unloading equipment on craigslist. Look around locally, you might be able to find a basic kit with minimal use dirt cheap. There's usually some Mr. Beer kits that people use once or twice after getting them as Christmas gifts and then try to unload on CL a couple months after the holidays. That's also an option to start with but the ingredient kits are not the greatest beers and are expensive for what they are. Still, you might be able to get the Mr. Beer equipment kit for like $20 and that equipment is all perfectly useful in the future. There are people with 10+ years of brewing that use the Mr. Beer equipment from time to time.

    JackHorzempa says:
    Permit me to discuss one item: if you have a ‘good’ LHBS nearby I would strongly encourage you to buy your homebrewing kit there and establish a relationship with the folks at the store. Keep in mind that the LHBS has a BIG interest in getting you educated and making good beers. If your first batch is a ‘success’ you will come back to the store and buy more ingredients. Don’t be shy in interacting with the store personnel; ask them lots and lot of questions. Brew your first batch during store hours; that way you can call them up if you have any questions while brewing your first batch.

    OK, I will discuss a second item: remember to Relax, Don’t Worry, Have a Homebrew!
     
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  11. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,111) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    PART 2 of 2.

    Here are HB42's Extract Brewing Tips...(Courtesy of Vikeman)

    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/how-do-i-start-homebrewing.62630/#post-855434

    First of all it's important to realize that good quality, fresh extract alone can brew fantastic beer as long as your recipe formulation and brewing technique are good. One of the best beers I've ever brewed, extract, all grain, or otherwise, was an abbey singel that was nothing but pilsen DME, a little table sugar, a touch of hallertauer, and wyeast 1214. I've brewed show stopping English bitters with nothing but Muntons extra light DME, a touch of crystal, some goldings, and wyeast 1968. And nothing is more popular than my simple extract hefe, which is nothing but 6 lbs of wheat DME, an oz of noble hops, and wyeast 3068 (it doesn't get any easier than that, and it's a great beer).

    if you want to brew great extract beers, the following guidelines are imperative:

    1) FULL WORT BOIL.

    I can't stress this enough. If you're doing concentrated boils, you're never going to produce flawless beers, no matter what else you do. If you're brewing 5 gallons of beer, you MUST start with at least 6-6.5 gallons of wort, and this is ESPECIALLY true for very pale colored or very hoppy beers. Late extract additions are helpful for those who do concentrated boils, but they're not a sub for a real FULL wort boil.

    2) Use only high quality, extra light, light, or pilsen extracts, and I much prefer dry extracts over liquid, as they tend to be fresher and lighter in color.

    Every extract beer that you brew should be based on either extra light DME, or pilsen DME. When an all grain brewer builds a recipe, they start with a pale base malt and work from there, even for the darkest beers, and a great extract brewer should do the same. Extra light extract is nothing but basic good quality 2-row, and a touch of carapils, while pilsen extract is 100% pilsner malt, and either of these are a fantastic slate on which to build any amazing beer. If you want to brew beer like an all grain brewer, then you need to think like an all grain brewer and build your recipes from the ground up.

    3) Use only FRESH extract!

    Don't buy extract kits that have been sitting on a store shelf for who knows how many millennia. This is especially true with liquid extract, which has a much shorter shelf life than dry and tends to darken and taste stale over time. This alone is a good reason to completely avoid liquid as far as I'm concerned. And try to find a retailer that moves their product and always has fresh inventory. For example a larger online homebrew supply may be better at providing fresh products than your stagnant local shop.

    4) Do NOT scorch your extract.

    This is yet another reason why I prefer DME over LME, as DME floats while LME sinks to the bottom of the kettle. If you decide to use LME however, remove the kettle from the burner and FULLY dissolve your extract before putting it back on the heat.

    5) Know which grains can be steeped and which can't.

    The only grains that can be steeped are crystal/caramel/cara malts, and roasted grains like chocolate malt, roasted barley, and black patent malt. EVERYTHING else really needs to be mashed. Doing things like trying to steep oatmeal or munich does nothing but load up your beer with unconverted starch, which is not doing your beer any favors. If you want to include other grains in your extract beers, then do a mini mash, NO exceptions.

    5) DO A FULL WORT BOIL! Partial boils kill beer. Seriously.

    6) Keep your yeast happy at all times.

    It's very important to pitch healthy yeast in adequate numbers, and use yeast that's appropriate for the style. Many extract kits come with a packet of generic "ale yeast" that is typically of low quality. You're never going to brew a fantastic English bitter with an old, stale packet of characterless "ale yeast". Get familiar with handling liquid yeast strains and making starters, and pay attention to proper pitching rates and proper fermentation temperatures, as both are extremely important for producing high quality beers devoid of off flavors.

    7) Never ever rush your beer.

    Great beer takes time, and most beers will benefit from spending some extra time in the fermenter and in the bottle. This means at least 2-3 weeks in primary before either bottling or moving to secondary, and if you're bottle conditioning give your beers at least 6-8 weeks in the bottle and you're sure to see a great improvement.

    And for shit sake, get yourself a bigger kettle! That, along with getting some decent ingredients, are the best things that you can do for your extract beers.

    And don't let anyone tell you that you can't brew great beer with extract, because that's BS. Some of the best beers that I've ever brewed were extract beers, no question.
    by: Homebrew42
     
  12. lunarbrew

    lunarbrew Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2013 Wisconsin

    I did the typical progression: extract to partial mash to AG. While I was able to learn on my own using this process, I really wish I would have jumped straight into AG. I agree that in order to do this, it would definitely be best to have some sort of mentor. But I also think I would be a better brewer at this point if I jumped straight into AG. IMO, AG is a much more engaging and entertaining process. It took my brewing from being a "follow the recipe" process, to being a creative hobby. I would have also saved some money on the stuff I used for extract/PM brewing, but don't use anymore... I'm lookin' at you BB buckets and 5gal kettle.
     
  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

  14. b-one

    b-one Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 California

    I am still a brewing neophyte (5 batches), I wish I started AG, but I probably learned some things that are easier with the partial mash I started with. I acquired the equipment as I brewed. I much prefer AG from the gigantic number of batches I've done it with (2).
    Newbie tips:
    1) Sanitize, sanitize, sanitize. If you have any doubt, sanitize it again.One 5g batch that is 'off' can make you think it is harder than it really is. Missed something on my third batch and you can't undo it. It's drinkable, but certainly not what I was aiming for. I like Star Stan, but there are others. Sanitize the equipment to be used an hour or so in advance and lay on your (sanitized) surface to dry. Use some kind of gloves like the surgical available at your hardware store. The stuff will irritate your skin. I will be getting brewers gloves soon, as reaching into a 5g batch of it to fetch the transfer tube that dropped to the bottom negates the wrist length gloves.
    2) Start with something with a lot of depth and color. Porter/stout. If you miss it a bit the other flavors will help to mask it. Plus, it's really dark, so it hides your less than perfect transfer techniques.
    3) Make a mash tun. With my regular gas stove I had a heck of a time keeping the temperature right. After, I can hit right on the temperature mark and may lose one or two degrees. There are many links on the web. I used the 10 cylindrical with stainless steel braid method and am quite happy. Type in DIY mash tun in your search engine and you'll have a bewildering array of choices.
    4) Speaking of temperature....if you are going for FG or even partial and a tun, have lots and lots of water available in various pots. I have the main water at about 160. Another pot going a bit hotter (the sparge water ultimately), and a few quarts at around 170. If you pour in the water and you are low on temp, hard to raise it up quickly if you have it all at the same temp.
    5) A 7.5g pot is essential for a 5g batch. I for some reason was sold a 5g pot when I knew no better. It is now my sparge water heating pot.
    6) Check that the recipe makes sense to you. Check it again. In particular, add up the water it says you need. Got enough pots going? My best beer so far had a recipe that added up to over 8g of fluid. Hard to fit in a 5g pot. I adjusted (after I was at the top of the 5G pot, duh) and it turned out fine.
    7) If it doesn't feel or look right, adjust. Hard to know on the first one, but it is like any other recipe. Hope you also cook a bit.
    8) OG and FG matter. Measure them. Buy at least two hydrometers, you'll probably break one quickly.
    9) Make sure your stove can achieve a rolling boil with 6g of liquid or more in something under a day (slight overstatement). My first brewing efforts to forever while I waited for a good boil. Oh, yeah, leave the lid off at least when it starts to boil.
    10) Screw the hop bag, just toss them in there. It all strains/settles out.

    Damn this is getting long, sorry. But I roll on...I started with a basic brew kit from a local brewing supply store and it is probably worthwhile to go that route. Should contain all the beginning essentials. Two 6g tubs, top with hole for airlock, airlock, hydrometer, thermometer, some siphoning hose and a rack.
    - Get a bit of extra hose that fits on your spigot for bottling.

    Things I now consider essential, but had to spread over time to satisfy my accountant (aka wife):
    - DIY Mash tun. About $60. A must have for AG.
    - Outside propane burner. I got the Bayou Classic. Cut my brewing time considerably. If you do get this, do a burn on it before you brew. Some nasty paint smells initially. $78
    - Wort chiller. A sink and ice water does not really get the job done quickly, and it needs to be quickly. Pick your poison here. I got a thin-walled stainless steel. I'm not really sure now why. It works. All seem to need extra clamps so they don't leak. Buy some.
    - Beer bottle tree. Need to wash and sanitize your bottles, then dry them a bit. I got this:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OF8U76/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    It works quite well. $18
    -DIY fermenting temperature control. Get a BIG tub. Get an aquarium heater. I think you can figure out the rest. Note that the cheaper aquarium heaters bottom out about 68F. I'm an ale guy, so that is fine for me. Hopefully you have a basement of something that stays below 70F in the summer. About $28 parts.
     
  15. JebediahScooter

    JebediahScooter Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2010 Vermont

    Some good tips, but sorry, I have to take issue with this one. You'll be shopping for a bigger pot in no time. Get aluminum, get stainless, get whatever...just get a bigger pot.
     
  16. b-one

    b-one Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 California

    I agree, should have said minimum. Ordered the pot the same time as the outdoor burner and didn't know what the burner could put out. Probably many of my starter recommendations are throw away as you start getting consistent batches and your friends offer to pay the grain bill...one offer so far. Hope I'm on the right track to upgrade in another 6 months or so.
    On the other hand, for a 'normal' indoor cooking stove you will probably strain and sweat to boil 6 gallons. Makes the outdoor burner a minimal requirement that I could not pass by the wife/accountant without producing a drinkable brew. I've had maybe beginners luck with less water in the boil and topping it up. Still have hit the OG 4 out of 5 (for the first I claim a mulligan).
     
  17. Mattreinitz

    Mattreinitz Initiate (0) Mar 1, 2012 New York

    I jumped right into all grain but I did a ton of reading and research before I bought a single thing. I knew this was going to be something I'm going to do for the foreseeable future and I have the room at my house to do it. The 5 gallon pots that come with the kits are NOT big enough. They're nice for heating sparge water but they're not enough to work with a full 5 gallon batch. I went out and bought a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer pot and burner from a local sporting goods store and installed a ball valve and bazooka myself. It now doubles as my mash tun and my boil kettle. I collect the wort in a fermenting bucket, dump the spent grains on the compost, and after a quick rinse its ready for the boil.
     
  18. SenorHops

    SenorHops Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    Get John Palmer's book "How to Brew". It will be your bible for awhile. Stick around the forum. Ask questions. Don't assume. Get at least an 8 gallon brew pot so you can do full boils for a 5 - 5.5 gallon batch. There are plenty of good kits you can get in the $100 range that will give you everything else you need to get started. Good luck.
     
  19. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,628) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    If you have the money, time and confidence to learn the process, then yeah, go all grain. I had none of those three when I started and thus went extract. Did 20 recipes and moved to the "brew in a bag method" recently. I have learned a ton and it's been a blast. "The Joy of Homebrewing" is a must in my opinion.
     
  20. nhindian

    nhindian Initiate (0) Feb 26, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Which do you recommend?
     
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