Thoughts on cellaring, collecting, hoarding, trading and selling beer

So I am newer to BA and loving it. I am not new to the passion of enjoying wine and beer and have been enjoying, cellaring and sharing for over 10 years for both wine and beer. However, I see a lot of people have major issues with cellaring, "collecting", hoarding and selling beer on and off of here and have not really ever seen this in the wine community. I am sure some people will be nice to my post and others will be jerks but that's ok, I am a big boy and can take it but I truly want to understand why you have certain opinions for or against. Please be constructive.

Now I understand that wines do not have as much of the "limited", brewed once, etc types of stuff but there are sooooooo many people on BA that have issues with people buying multiples of various brews and the extent of which they go to accumulate these brews. I also see some having issues with people buying and then trying to resell for a profit.

Now I totally respect everyone's opinions as we are all able to have them and am not looking down on anyone based on their opinions. But I am just confused by some. First, I agree with people who say that there should be bottle limits on various brews so one person is not able to go to a local store and buy an abundance of one release thereby limiting it for other locals. However, what is wrong with them going to other stores around their area and getting more? To me it does not matter why they are doing this whether to hoard for themselves, to trade or sell. At the end of the day MY belief is that we live in the USA where capitalism is the driving force and backbone in our economy and how you spend your money really is none of my business as long as it is not illegal in the eyes of our government.

What is the difference between trading and selling your brews? At the end of the day, you paid "x" for your beer and the other person paid "y" for theirs and you are trading, so in essence it is the same as buying with cash, just calling it something different. The second part of this is when someone buys a brew to then sell for more later. This is a little more of a heated debate area but obviously happens as well in other areas outside of beer. This just happened recently with the Westy Brick and Bolt Cutter. I saw Bolt Cutter in my area on Craigslist for $100!!! I was dumbfounded. Others listed the Westy Brick on eBay for $700. Not my cup of tea but if people buy it then apparently there is a market. No one is forcing anyone to buy them and it's not like holding medicine you need to survive for ransom. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. The market will then dictate what happens.

When I see something I really like or that is limited I will buy a few to try now and then hold the others for a later date to see if it has changed, etc and then keep a couple possibly to trade others for things I can't get in my area or things that are older and no longer available. I see nothing wrong with this but some call this collecting. What I also do is look at the top 100 and other lists to try and pursue these brews to try and experience both by myself and with friends. If they are on these lists many people have thought they were good so this is why I would like to try them as well. Again, some call this collecting. But then why have these lists?

I dunno, but this has bothered me for the last couple of weeks. We see this on the "Post your haul" forum and other areas. At the end of the day, we are talking about beer which I believe should be shared with friends and family. My favorite time is when I can have people over to try different things I have in my cellar!! In fact I have 3 guys coming over tonight for just that! Well, I look foward to your thoughts and comments!

The only issue I think the public has with selling beer is when it is sold for profit because of it's demand. Of course, the site has to be against selling beer, because it is illegal.

Tickers gotta tick
Hoarders gotta hoard
Haters gonna hate.

You contradict yourself...

Which one is actually your belief? Some people believe your latter belief much more strongly than your initial belief, or they don't believe your initial belief applies to beer for some dumb reason. They believe it so strongly that they feel they should be included on everyone else in the world's friends and family list.

Probably because it looks selfish and sort of against the community aspect of the beer culture. Wine is much different but beer seems to be assimilating their trends because of the recent spike in artisan brewers and collectors.

replace "uptight" with "entitled". Covers half of this community, too drunk to care covers much of the other half.

It's annoying that people buy up all the beer to cellar or resell, because those of us that prefer to drink the beer can't get any.

Now, I'm not gonna do anything about it beyond complaining about in the appropriate thread on BA, but it's still annoying.

I am the latter for sure.

The horse is dead

you must not have a good understanding of capitalism, hoarder

as a hoarding ticker full of hate I endorse this message. Beer is serious business, just like every other hobby. This is a consumer based hobby...it is relatively easy to get people to be upset that they didn't get the chance to buy the latest and greatest beer. The forums are used to fan the flames of hype and rarity and increase the value of things, the entitlement comes with that.

Did not contradict myself. Two different statements for different areas of my post. I believe both.

What's a ticker?

Thanks for being constructive. LOL

Somebody whose goal in life is to try as many beers as possible.

Someone who ticks off every beer they try in an effort to be able to say they have tried everything.

Here's a difference between the wine world and the beer world: beer is repeatable. With wine there is an understanding that good vintage are rare and special things. Everyone goes into other knowing that. With beer people are used to the idea that beers will beon the shelf. When someone takes things off of the shelf it runs against this tradition of availability and that makes some members of the beer community feel uncomfortable.

you saw bolt cutter selling for $100? Or an asking price of $100?

Westy bricks selling for $700?


I think people should do.... whatever. Knock yourselves out. Still plenty of Smuttynose IPA for me over here, you guys beat eachother to death for a case of Bolt Cutter or whatever other nonsense is flavor-of-the-week.

In the same sense that people who want to cellar are upset they cannot buy the beer they want to cellar because people are drinking it all up!

Most people I witness buying large quantities of anything are looking out for regular trading partners first, and friends who cannot get out and beer shop, and yeah..some just want to hoard the stuff.

I have another question for you:

A month ago you said

and

http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/question-about-buying-multiples-of-limited-releases.51070/

--

Today you post:

Have your views evolved or changed? Why? What made you come to this decision?

Agreed, in fact i have a bunch of friends that call each other when they find out about something else coming available. For instance I was at a store last week when the 50/50 Eclipse bottles came out and I put a group on hold for friends.

Ditto.

So not gonna lie, I didn't read the whole post, because quite frankly, Ive read medical text books shorter than that. But I will say, I am cool with the 4 former, but despise the last (selling). Here's my take. I view selling beer (on eBay, craiglist, etc) as the equivalent of ticket scalping, which I also am adamantly opposed to. To me a ticket scalper, or eBay seller of beer, are both nothing more than middle men, screwing over both the producer of the product and the consumer. A band is going to put on a concert, they set a fair price for their tickets so that their fans can come, support them, and enjoy the product. Then a ticket scalper comes along (who almost certainly isnt a far of the band), scoops up all the tickets, and now there are none available for the real fans to purchase at the fair price set by the band. Now these fans, being fans and all and wanting to enjoy the show being put on by their favorite artist, decide they are willing to pay whatever price necessary to get into the show. So the all too willing ticket scalper is there to sell them some tickets for an (often absurdly) inflated price. This screws over both the producer and the consumer, and benefits but one person, the douche bag ticket scalper. They are providing absolutely no service, they are just profiteering off of a consumers love for a product. The band loses potential money they could have made from charging such high prices in the first place, and the fans lose money by paying significantly more than was originally asked. Likewise, those who sell beers on eBay are effectively doing the same thing. Bringing a bunch of mules to a beer release, and then turning around and selling those beers at massively inflated prices does nothing but hurt the craft beer community, and benefit no one but oneself. So if you are one of said eBay sellers, or ticket scalpers, f you .

I am split on this topic, one side says buy what you want then do what you want with your beer, other side (the entitled American side) says I deserve to score at least one bottle of whatever new limited release comes out.

I guess at the end of the day, in the spirit of being a lover of great beer, I'd like everyone to stick with their store bottle limit and actually consume (gasp!) the beer they buy instead of throwing it up for sale, holding it for hostage on the trading block, or throwing it in a dark closet for years like an unopened action figure hoping the value will go up over time. But I think we've all been guilty of at least one faux pas in the beer world.

Yes and actually it's almost irrelevant to one's macro views about capitalism vs. some other system. Here and in some other threads it's as if capitalism is equated with some sort of completely laissez-faire principle about selling of goods like this without a seller having the freedom to use some sort of restriction to accommodate the customer base.

This does happen in wine.

And it's much more expensive, and I think that because it's beyond most folks' budgets that they're not as aware of it.

Plus in wine it seems that they're better at raising prices to the point where the demand and supply curves intersect. There's just not the massive quantities of relatively cheap wine that are oh so rare and oh so good that they sell out and create headaches like you see in craft beer.

You know that is a great question and yes my views changed a bit and that is why I have no issue with anyone elses views. At first I thought it was wrong for people to buy beer and then sell it later. But then someone on here actually challenged me and said that it is the same as trading for beer you already bought. So I thought about it and he was actually right, IMO. I am not hard headed and am always trying to learn, grow, etc hence the reason for my OP.

I'm pretty sure those people selling westy bricks didn't pay $700 for them. If they were selling them for the same price I might agree with you.

Simply put, it's illegal to resell alcohol without a license in the US nationwide, unless I'm mistaken.

I guess I'm missing your main point in all of this ranting, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Are you angry about reselling at jacked up prices, or think that others don't have the right to be upset by the practice? And are you comparing the "Latest Haul" thread to that practice, or are you describing it as a positive facet of this beer community?

I think that the vast majority of beer collected, hoarded and highly sought after is not for the collector to drink by themselves, and especially not for the sake of being the only one to drink that bottle with selfish intent. I think that it's rare that individuals take an exceptionally hard beer to find, or limited release, and "Markintihar" it in a CBS snifter, unless you are, in fact, MarkIntihar. But then it's justified, because of all the other aspects in which Mark assists other BAs in his daily life, that selfish act is negated by other selfless ones. And it's not like any of us want all that §ucaba anyways.

I see that most of the über .rar beers popping up in major tastings, shared amongst a large amount of BAs or beer enthusiasts, most with only a couple of ounces per pour, and delighting in the comparison of palates and the sharing of good brew. Even the non-wales that disappear off shelves quickly are often split with others, more often than not in the name of sharing the wealth.

Now, I'm not talking about those that walk into a store on a tip from our forums where they might find a new release, then go in and buy out the stock just to resell it illegally on the internet, but there will always be those that scrape the icing off the Oreo before tossing back the damp cookie.

As far as trading goes, I'm of the opinion, while the minority, that beer is beer, and my own personal mental value is what I'm willing to trade said beer for. Many of my opinions on value differ greatly from the majority on here, so in those instances, I just avoid trading for/trading away said beer, because I know how the negotiation will go.

However, I've come to know a great many BAs that I've traded with multiple times that have the same mentality, and those trades go better than most, because we understand a mutual though process regarding the trade, and know that neither of us is trying to outsmart the other, or "win" the trade. This mentality is, while diminishing, the ultimately better way to go about trading.

Again, if I misinterpreted your statements, my B. Cheers to you and the airing of your grievances, for as you know, 'tis the season.

Now, time for feats of strength.

Typically in early to mid 20s. Typically with a "collector" mindset. Often will continue to sample and rate beers even after their palatte has lost the capacity for discernment.

OK I get what you say. But how bout if you cant get your money back (scalper) he takes a chance sometimes a win sometimes a loss. I stopped going to Kate The Great day not because the beer was not good it was great.. Just too much of a pain in the ass line plus how many other great beers can you just go in an buy...Stuff works out. If you can't buy this beer or ticket get an other one. If re-sellers get left holding then they stop

I am not one of these, and you do bring up a valid point. Again, I don't necessarily agree or am for it, however I don't spend much time laboring on it, as I am not sure what I could do to stop it, outside of not giving these people my business.

I don't collect or cellar because I don't have the space or the patience. I haven't traded but I am excited about it. I think it is great that I have the opportunity to try a beer that I cannot get locally and same for the other person in the trade. I look at retail price of the beer and how much it is worth it to me to try something new. That is how I determine value. In my opinion that's good for both traders and both breweries.

Nice points here. First off, I am not angry at anyone doing any of these things I mentioned. I guess I am more angry at the people who get angry at them and call them names like hoarder, collector, etc. I agree that most people share their uber rare beers with others, and this is what I do as well. Selling is illegal but so is shipping during trading and that happens too. I guess I was just irritated with some people bashing others thinking they are more holy than others.

krl2112 couldn't smooth a silk sheet if he had a hot date with a babe...I lost my train of thought

Very constructive. And I guess u never saw my wife before! LOL.

It's a Festivus miracle!

True, the holier than thou mentality is pretty pointless, but trading and selling are 2 totally different things, in my opinion (obviously open for debate). And as I said, "trading up," or auctioning off your beers for better/more beer is the wrong way to go about it, but I think that those who trade fairly, and believe me when I say that there are plenty here, is very different, and much more beneficial, than trading for profit, or selling beer.

I believe in an oxford comma. Yeesh.

Pin ur fatha George!!!!! Airing of the grievences!! LOL.

I don't even understand how this would work.... Why wouldn't he just have them dry cleaned?

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i assumed you were a festivus afficiando. i am disappoint