Stillwater - The Tale Of Van Winkle

Discussion in 'New England' started by kodymupa, Aug 23, 2012.

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  1. kodymupa

    kodymupa Initiate (0) Dec 14, 2010 Illinois

    Has anyone still seen Stillwater Folklore - The Tale of Van Winkle on the shelves? How much is it going for?
     
  2. ao125

    ao125 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2010 Virginia

  3. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    You might want to check Stillwater's "tied house" pub, the Of Love and Regret Pub. Last time I was there, they had several barrel aged Stillwater beers available, though I can't recall if they had this one. If they do, expect to pay a premium for it, as prices are high at the pub. I think all of the barrel aged offerings were selling for $35 a bottle (though I believe you can save $3 if you want to take any of them to go).

    Another possibility is to check with Max's in Baltimore. They have an extensive bottle list, and they tend to carry a good selection of Stillwater beers. If they do have it, I would expect their price will be considerably better than what you'll pay at Of Love and Regret, even though they're also a bar.

    Good luck.
     
  4. slimjim871

    slimjim871 Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2011 Pennsylvania

    They did have it at OLAR when I was there, unfortunately that was one of the few bottles that had to be consumed on premise.
     
  5. DrBier

    DrBier Initiate (0) Jun 12, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Saw it in Westminster. Let me say I really like all of Brian's beers and I don't mind dropping some coin on beers but the new BA Folklore was $18 for a 12oz bottle. With MD tax that would be nearly $20 for 12oz of MD beer. That's too much, I passed. Also enjoyed my visit to OLAR but won't be back often due to the pricing there as well. Too many other options out there these days to get taken advantage of.
     
  6. ao125

    ao125 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2010 Virginia

    On one hand, I agree with you, that that's a crazy price for 12oz of beer. On the other hand, I don't see the need to crap on something just because it's from MD.
     
  7. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    This sums up my feelings about Stillwater exactly. While I typically would want to support a local brewer and merchant as much as I can, the pricing of Stillwater beers and food at OLAR just seems excessive. IMHO, there's no justification for the prices I see for Stillwater beers, and as much as I like them, I've generally stopped ordering Stillwater beers when I see them on the menu (or in a store). As DrBier points out, there are too many equally fine options out there, and most can be had for less money. In some instances considerably less money.

    Probably just a coincidence, but I see that there has (apparently) been a "falling out" between Brian S. and his chef at OLAR. Apparently Ted Stelzenmuller has now left OLAR to return to his position as the full time chef at Jack's Bistro.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/enterta...s-of-love-and-regret-20120822,0,5651288.story
     
  8. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    "On the other hand, I don't see the need to crap on something just because it's from MD."

    Wow. How'd you get that out of the prior post from DrBier? It sounded as if he was simply noting that the price for Stillwater beers was too rich for his blood, and that there are plenty of other options that can be had for less money. Frankly, I would agree with both sentiments.

    I'm just not seeing the "crapping on something just because it's from Maryland" aspect of his post.
     
  9. DrBier

    DrBier Initiate (0) Jun 12, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Not trying to crap on either Stillwater and certainly not The Land of Pleasant Living. Let's Go O's. My point was for a local gypsy beer it's too expensive don't care what state we're in.
     
  10. ao125

    ao125 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2010 Virginia

    I see people all too often complaining about the price of beers, just because they're local to where the complainer is... and quite frankly, it's irritating. That's what I mean by "crap on something just because it's from MD."

    Yeah... I'll agree that $20 for 12oz is steep... but that's the laws of supply and demand and economies of scale for you.

    If I had a quarter for every time I heard someone say "I'm not paying $10 for a six pack, because brewery XYZ is just down the street," I'd have a sock full... and I'd put that sock full of quarters to good use.
     
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  11. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I guess I'm coming at this from a different angle. Like I said, I want to support local producers as much as possible, but sometimes I feel as if the local brewer is trying to cash in on the local appeal of a beer.

    I try to compare like with like, and in this case I would compare the BA folklore with other "comparable" BA stouts. At $18 a pop, that's more expensive than KBS, CBS, Dark Lork, Kate, Abyss, BCBS, etc. Those beers are all highly regarded and highly rated, and so arguably deserving of the high price. Can someone please make a similar arguement for BA folklore? As near as I can tell, the best thing it has going for it is that it's made in Maryland (if you're from Maryland and/or are inclined to buy products produced in Maryland). As someone who I guess falls into that category (inclined to buy iterms produced in Maryland simply because they're produced in Maryland), that tends to irritate me, as it makes me feel as if I'm getting played for a sucker if I buy Stillwater beers.

    From my point of view, I often feel as if I'm getting crapped on by Stillwater, simply because I'm from Maryland. I would add that my impression isn't helped by the fact that the last time I was out in Portland Oregon, a glass of Stillwater beer at a local pub was $2 less a glass than what I would have had to pay for it at OLAR.
     
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  12. bstill

    bstill Initiate (0) Nov 29, 2005 Maryland

    wow.. i guess only breweries like Lost Abby & Russian River can release $20+ 375ml beers?

    i normally stay out of conversations such as these, but i feel the need to defend myself here as people like Mr. Michaelsen seem to have been lately enjoying giving me grief for my pricing (yes, i noticed your reviews and comments on a variety of sites from Yelp to the Baltimore Sun, thank you).

    first off.. i have never set out to price gouge with my products. because of the fact that my beer is produced in a way that it travels through multiple hands in the industry, the price increases (not my profit). this beer in general was produced using extremely hard to procure 20yr Pappy Van Winkle barrels and we only yielded 1,200x 375ml bottles that is 100 cases of 12 to be distributed to my market of 35 states. unlike some breweries that are able to sell rarities like these direct from their brewery (and often times still charge a premium), all of my beers must pass through traditional distribution channels, that alone can increase the cost of a product by 40%.

    my apologies for the added costs and the often 'hard to find' aspect of my beers, but i am just one dude trying to make something unique and special to share with the world, and doing it the only way i can.. if you don't dig what i do, it's cool.. but ya don't need to go hatin', yo.

    word,
    b.

    p.s. any future concerns, compliments, complaints, or random haikus.. keep me in the loop and hit me up direct: stillwaterales (at) gmail (.) com
     
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  13. ao125

    ao125 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2010 Virginia

    While we're on the subject of Folklore, is 25-to-One exactly the same as Folklore? I have a bottle that I picked up a while ago that I was thinking about drinking this weekend.
     
  14. bstill

    bstill Initiate (0) Nov 29, 2005 Maryland

    yes.. pretty much same beer, slight recipe tweaks but same concept.
     
  15. ao125

    ao125 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2010 Virginia

    Thanks
     
  16. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader



    I paid $5 a glass for cellar door at Beermongers in Portland, and no, it wasn't happy hour. Glass size was 12 ounces.

    "yes i have to buy my own beer from the MD distro for my own bar.. how is that for getting shit on??"

    Volker mentioned the same thing when he first starting making bottles of the peppercorn triple. My understanding is that this is because neither you nor he were brewing and/or bottling the beer on the premises. Maryland laws....

    In terms of pricing for the BA folklore, as I indicated, I tried to compare like with like. BA folklore isn't a wine barrel aged sour ale infected with brett, nor is it a fruit flavored lambic style ale with 100% of the proceeds going to charity (which is why I didn't use RR beers as an example). On the other hand, KBS, CBS, Dark Lord, etc.... you feel your expenses are that much higher than the breweries making those beers?

    As for my OLAR reviews, I tried to be as accurate and objective as possible when reviewing it. While I said a lot of positive things about OLAR, I didn't gush over the place as some reviewers did, and you're right, I did have some criticisms as well. IMHO, they were the sort of problem areas other prospective customers going to OLAR would want to know about, which is the only reason I mentioned them.

    I've always thought your beers pretty good, but on the other hand, as others have alluded to, there are many other well made, delicious Belgian style saisons and Belgian style strong ales (which appears to be the style most of your beers are patterned after) available on the market. I don't know.... I just find it strange and difficult to fathom when a beer like Stateside saison, that to the best of my knowledge is made over at the DOG brewery in Westminster, costs $3 or $4 more a bottle than what I have to pay for Dupont Saison, which is brewed 4000 miles from here and, IMHO, is one of the best saisons on the planet.

    When I first tried the stateside saison during 72 hours of Belgium several years ago, the impression I got from talking to the bartenders at Max's was that your beer was a bit pricey at present, because you had a lot of start-up costs and your expenses were high because the initial batch was so small. Still, I was happy to pay the freight (I bought a LOT of stateside at that first weekend event), as you were local, the beers were good and highly regarded, and we all wanted to see you succeed. I'm still happy to see you succeed and I wish you nothing but luck in all your endeavors, but dammit man, IMHO, your prices are just too high for what you're making.
     
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  17. ao125

    ao125 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2010 Virginia

    Economies of scale.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale

    Brasserie Dupont produces more beer and has a larger buying power for raw ingredients than DOG. Since they buy in larger bulk, their costs go down.

    In 2010, Dupont produced 10,000 barrels of beer, which is what... 420,000 gallons?
    (http://www.spoke.com/companies/brasserie-dupont-4ec55f7f091eb00adc000740)
     
  18. DeutschesBier

    DeutschesBier Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2009 Maryland

    I won't get into the price thing, but one thing about Stillwater is that I wish more of their barrel-aged and special edition beers stayed somewhat local (not just at Max's, OLAR, and maybe one other place in B-more). I know you have to keep the markets happy and all - I get that - I just wish some other stores got some of the wine barrel beers and such.
     
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  19. DeutschesBier

    DeutschesBier Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2009 Maryland

    As a Gypsy brewer, shouldn't there also be savings from not being tied down to a brewery or brewpub (rent/mortgage, utilities, general overhead, payroll, dividends to investors, etc, etc)? It's an honest question, I'm not trying to be a dick. I know it costs a lot more on a per-beer basis to produce smaller batches, but I would think that other savings would almost cancel them out. I guess he pays a fee to the brewery in which the beer is made though....
     
  20. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,275) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Agreed.

    On the other hand, doesn't Dupont have to maintain a brewery (with all the costs associated with that), and for that matter, even though Dupont has larger buying power, allowing them to negotiate a better deal for ingredients, I would still expect the cost of raw materials to be more expensive in Belgium than the US. Add to that the cost of getting the beer over here, whatever licensing fees are necessary, the importer's costs...

    I don't mean to suggest I'm an expert on any of this, and maybe there really is a good reason why Stillwaters beers are so expensive (at least they seem so me), however....

    Obviously, Brian S. has to pay some sort of fee to use the faciliities over at DOG, but even so, I would assume that's still cheaper than having to operate your own brewery (at least in the short term... maybe not in the long run). Add to that the additional cost of getting the beer over to the US, and at least to my unsophisticated eye, I would expect a local product made with similar ingredients to be cheaper than a foreign product (assuming the foreign producer isn't intentionally trying to take a loss on the sale of their product here for one reason or another).

    I would also add that there are plenty of other domestic saisons available now as well. I'd have to think long and hard before naming one that is more expensive than the stateside saison.

    Let me finish with this comment. I absolutely support local producers and merchants wherever possible, but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. If Stillwater stateside saison (for example) sold for the same price as Dupont Saison, I'd buy the stateside saison most of the time, just because it's made by a local guy who I support. I like Dupont better, but I like state saison well enough that I'd prefer to throw my money to the local guy. However, asking me to pay extra for a similarly styled beer that I don't personally think is as good... that's asking too much.
     
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