"Shelton Brothers lawsuit costs New York breweries millions" -- Brew York, New York

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by Todd, Apr 24, 2012.

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  1. hoser

    hoser Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2003 Canada (AB)

    Go,Dan,Go!
     
  2. ChadQuest

    ChadQuest Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2009 Illinois

    That is it! lets all stop buying any Cantiloon from the shelf in protest.

    yes, stop doing that everyone.....
     
    admiralcrunch, pwoody11 and Jnorton00 like this.
  3. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Bravo New York State! Making it impossible for its business community to conduct business in the state since Nelson Rockefeller left office. My state sucks ass. Just waiting for them to outlaw growler fills, the only, and I do mean the only, good beer-related thing about this state.

    And as for the money grubbing, Silas Marner wannabe's who control the flow of some of my favorite beers, and jack the prices to where etregourmet and belgiuminabottle shipping from Europe ferpittysakes are almost equal, all I gotta say, ala yoda, is choke on your victory I hope you do. Can't wait for you to lose all these contracts that the breweries themselves also can't wait to do business elsewhere. I have never met a retailer who had one nice thing to say about them, and plenty to say that would be too raw even for an Eddie Murphy routine.
     
    mschofield likes this.
  4. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    The way I read the story, NY State structured it's excise tax on beer specifically to HELP it's small breweries and only changed that upon the threat of a lawsuit from an out-of-state importer knowing that they would lose in the courts.

    As part of the resolution of the lawsuit, the State Liquor Authority and the Department of Taxation and Finance conceded that that the two exemptions discussed above are unconstitutional. The agencies’ decision was based on a long line of United States Supreme Court decisions that prohibit a state from giving preferential treatment to items produced in the state. STATE OF NEW YORK LIQUOR AUTHORITY

    So it appears your argument is with the SCOTUS and the US Constitution. :wink:
     
  5. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,145) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I am sure you are right.

    That doesn't change the validity of one thing I said in my post, which references things in a general way, albeit in a forum discussing a particular ruling.

    New York citizens should be pardoned for having this chip on shoulder, even when, as you point out, it comes evident at imperfect times. I have watched businesses escaping the unfriendly business climate, rampant corruption, and stupidly high tax rates of NYS for much of my adult life. Oh what a proud day for all NY'ers when we finally climbed past NJ and Conn. to the top of the "most highly taxed state in the country" heap.:wink:
     
    ant880 likes this.
  6. Urbancaver

    Urbancaver Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2009 Ohio

    It sucks that NY brewers now have to pay the same taxes and licensing fees as every other brewery in every other state...

    I'm not losing any sleep over it. Shelton Bros intentions weren't bad and the result will likely not mean a significant impact on breweries (other than a slight price increase potentially)
     
  7. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    The tax break for the in-state breweries would have meant a savings of 7¢ on a 64 oz. growler (13¢ in NYC). Even with the wholesaler's and retailer's mark-up on top of that, it would not add up to the difference of $2-4 for a growler fill of out-of-state beer.
     
  8. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    The SLA had the option to go the other way and not tax any small brewers. NY or PA or CA or wherever.
     
  9. ant880

    ant880 Savant (1,179) Nov 7, 2010 New York
    Trader

    I couldnt agree with you more...sure, as some of the BAs have calculated, the price increases may be minimal but the bottom line is it is ANOTHER price increase. I live in the 4th highest taxed county in the country and work in Manhattan where a salad and a bottle of water for lunch will run you $11. Add in things like $150 parking tickets, some of the highest gas and car insurance costs in the nation and one of the most disfunctional state governments you could find (although Gov Cuomo has been reeling things in a bit) and it becomes overwhelming. Sorry about the rant, but it all makes that 7 cent increase feel like the straw that broke the camels back...especially when the only way left to forget about your cost of living is to drink more :wink:
     
  10. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Did they? (I can't find any suggestion of that in any of the articles right now).

    I would imagine that it would be up to the NY Legislature and the Governor to write, pass and sign a new law that would replace the one the NYSLA decided could not be defended in court due to it's unconstitutionality.

    Is there any other state that doesn't charge brewers, or even just small brewers, excise tax? It doesn't appear so.
    STATE TAX RATES ON BEER
     
  11. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Good point. But I wouldnt think the SLA would have the power to get rid of the exception without the legislature either. Either way, its the legislatures job.
     
  12. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2011 California

    Is this why NY and Bos hate each other? And SB keeps most of the 'good stuff' to the eastern seaboard. Screw 'em.
     
  13. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,071) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    It was the NYSSC which invalidated the discount according to the NYS Dept. of Taxation memo:

    On March 28, 2012, the New York State Supreme Court, in Shelton v. NYS Liquor
    Authority & NYS Department of Taxation and Finance, issued an order that declared certain
    provisions of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law and Tax Law unconstitutional and of no force
    and effect.
     
  14. emannths

    emannths Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2007 Massachusetts

    I'm not sure why they couldn't choose to strike out any portion of the law necessary to bring it into compliance. This could be as simple as striking striking out the "in this state" and/or the "having its...State" clause:
    This would preserve the exemption but not limit it only to in-state sales by in-state brewers.
     
  15. deadbody

    deadbody Initiate (0) May 10, 2010 Minnesota
    Trader


    Multiple states have excise tax breaks for small Brewers. Brewers who brew less than 100k BBL/yr sell the first 25k MN excise tax free here. In wisconsin I think the threshhold is like 250k bbl/yr the first 50k are sold at half excise tax.

    NYS could have opened this up to all brewers.
     
  16. deadbody

    deadbody Initiate (0) May 10, 2010 Minnesota
    Trader


    Problem is that the instate sales by instate brewers clause is nullified by the commerce clause. States cannot levy taxes against products from other states unless they tax products from their own state the same way (I worded that like shit but IANAL so deal, I do however know that is the intent of the law)
     
  17. emannths

    emannths Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2007 Massachusetts

    It should also be noted that NY had plenty of time to plan for this. The lawsuit was originally filed back in what, 2007? And there's very clear precedent that alcohol tax codes that favor in-state producers are unconstitutional. They had five years to work on an alternative tax code.
     
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  18. VonZipper

    VonZipper Pundit (959) Feb 9, 2011 New York

    Hopefully this won't hurt Barrier,in addition to other small brewers, and the move to the new brewery will help them make some more money(along with great beer.)
     
  19. zode

    zode Initiate (0) Mar 2, 2005 Massachusetts


    Hey Todd you see that Brew York has detracted the headline for being defamatory;

    Editor’s Note: Due to complaints about the biased tone of the headline of this article, it has been changed. We apologize for the accusatory tone this piece may have taken with its previous title.
     
  20. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,254) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    Staff Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Interesting. I see that now, and also notice he took out the loose suggestion of a boycott of Shelton Brothers brands (with a link to them) at the very end.

    Yet he failed to correct the fact that Beer for Beasts is a joint BeerAdvocate & Sixpoint event, not solely Sixpoint's event. :wink:
     
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