German craft beer

Discussion in 'Germany' started by einhorn, Dec 20, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Yes. A number of large Munich breweries are now producing "classic" versions of Oktoberfests, unfiltered Helles lagers, and dry hopped Weissbiere (including Wezenbocks).
     
  2. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Were any of the darker versions of Oktoberfest beers served at Oktoberfest?
     
  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Why? Because Oktoberfest would be "better" if it featured 100 different taps? (To answer your question seriously: yes. the 200th year Jubilaeums Festbier based on the original beer served at the 1st Oktoberfest was served there a couple of years back.)
     
  4. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    No not really. Just was hoping that one beer might actually be differentiated from the next, even if in color.
     
  5. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    If you can't tell the difference between a HB, Hacker Pschorr, and Augustiner Helles (or Oktoberfest) then I simply dont know what to tell you. perhaps this is a joke....
     
  6. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,651) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I noticed that Paulaner has come out with a new Braumeister beer, a weissbier dry hopped with Bravo and Cascade. A bit strange however that the stammwürze and alcohol is the same for both Braumeister beers, 12.5% and 5.5%.

    I found this article discussing the Jubiläumsbier where it says:

    Als „ein sehr süffiges, malzaromatisches Bier mit einer feinen Hopfennote“ charakterisiert Lehmann das „Münchner Bier“, von dem Tausende Liter nur für die Jubiläumswiesn gebraut wurden und das mit einer Stammwürze von 13,5 Prozent und 6 Prozent Alkohol ebenso stark ist wie die anderen Oktoberfestbiere der Brauereien.

    With a stammwürze of 13.5%, which is fully in line with the old sommerbier/lagerbier, I would expect the abv to be below 5% due to a lower degree of attenuation. Maybe 4.6-4.8% tops, since 19th century Bavarian brewing wasn't based on heavy attenuation the way British brewing was. I'd expect the IBUs to number in the 40s-60s (pre-ice cellars and artificial refridgeration) and the hop flavors to stem from a two hour wort boil, and for the beer to be lagered at least 3 months, preferably a full 5-6 months to mimick the remaining sommer/lagerbier which was left around september/oktober. I'd also want 100% Münchener malt to be used. I.e, an authentic sommerbier/lagerbier/märzenbier would be pretty uneconomical to produce.

    By tradition the Swedish macro breweries produce dark and sweet lager beers for Christmas and one of the breweries has a habit of releasing the specs for theirs. One of their beers has a stammwürze of 14% and an abv of 5.3%, with an IBU value of 30. The stammwürze and abv is right in line with the average found in an 1891 testing of 176 Swedish lager beers, where the average stammwürze was found to be 13.9% and the average abv 5.3%.

    This particular beer tastes quite sweet (as do most Swedish Christmas lager beers), and based on what I've read about Bavarian brewing I wouldn't consider IBU values of between 40-60 to be outlandish for a similarly low attenuated sommer/lager/märzen beer (with lower IBU values for the early sommerbier and higher values for the later sommerbier, or märzenbier).
     
    #766 Crusader, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  7. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    The Augustiner is the only one of the bunch that has any noticeable flavor difference. Otherwise, I know what I personally like in a beer, but I challenge any BA tell me which is which in a blindfolded test.
     
  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Talking draft here? I accept that challenge. If you think HP tastes identical to HB, I honestly don't know what to say.
     
  9. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    Not so sure. I guess, many of them are formulating business plans based upon what they like to drink themselves. BrauKunstKeller and Hopfenstopfer are producing excellent beers, but it's all about an array of Pale Ales and India Pale Ales.

    There are a few other examples as well: I recently had two beers by a new gypsy-brewery from Mainz (Kuehn Kunz Rosen is their somewhat awkward name, brewing in Bamberg, probably at Kaiserdom I suppose). Their two starting beers are a Belgian Wit (that one was very good) and a Pale Lager (good as well, but not totally convincing).
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    "I guess, many of them are formulating business plans based upon what they like to drink themselves." That is an interesting guess. I know that some US craft breweries took that approach but I would have thought that the German breweries would have taken a different approach than that.

    I suppose we will have to take a wait and see approach to see how things unfold?

    Cheers!
     
  11. SirRainboom

    SirRainboom Initiate (0) Jul 27, 2014 Germany
    Deactivated

    I think it depends on what kind of brewery we're talking about. I think at some point of these points converge - where a brewery will have formulated a business plan on what they can sell and what they would like to drink themselves to different degrees.

    I know for example that the guy from Hopfenstopfer started out as doing mostly local stuff as he's employed in small local brewery (in Baden-Württemberg I think) and he only started producing higher quantities as demand went through the sky throughout the country. There's probably also a difference in marketing and business strategies depending on how old these breweries are, I don't think comparing a "bulwark" of German breweries like Schneider Weisse or Weihenstephan with newer ones like Camba Bavaria makes a lot of sense in that respect.

    I'll have to admit there's much in terms of domestics I'll still have to try. As of now it's mostly remained with Schneider Weisse, Bamberg's Rauchbier (Schlenkerla), some local beers whose names I don't remember, a Munich Helles on Oktoberfest, a Riegele (I can't recall which one, I think it had a grey label) and I've frequently had a quite quaffable Porter at one of the pubs I frequent. (Lausitzer I think, no idea whether that classifies as anything "craft")
     
  12. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I'm up for that -- as long as we keep it to Paulaner or Hacker-Pschorr in the mix, because those two have blurred their lines over the past few years.

    To me the malts in Spaten and Paulaner have different characters. Different farms? Different strains? Different mash? Don't know, but I can pick them out blind; Paulaner has a dryness that's tell-tale. H-B is closer to Spaten, but there's a different sweetness to H-B.

    I haven't had Augustiner or Lowenbrau in a long while, so those could be kickers -- and Lowenbrau could suffer the same fate as HP has from combining with Paulaner, but I'm still up for the challenge!
     
    herrburgess likes this.
  13. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The carbonation/spritzy mouthfeel on the HB is enough to clearly distinguish it from all the others. And you are very correct that Paulaner and Spaten are worlds apart in terms of malt profile.
     
  14. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,339) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    I have forgotten if we are talking about Hells or Oktoberfests here, but if it's the latter I can assure that Löwenbräu makes a darn tasty one. They come out every year about this time, actually, looks like I'm going to miss them. Last year I had one when it was first released to the beer stores and it was fantastic. I went back to a general grocery store when they appeared weeks later, and they were so badly skunked (brown bottle!) that there is no doubt in my mind that they were mishandled by the grocery store. Adding to that perception, just a few weeks ago during a pretty hot stretch here in HD, I went to the same grocery store and grabbed a Weihenstephaner. It was literally near-hot to the touch. It was pretty clear that they just leave their wares out in the sun somewhere for long stretches of time before bringing them into the store. It's a shame, because they ruined a few cases of perfectly good Löwenbräu O-Fest.
     
    drtth, JackHorzempa and herrburgess like this.
  15. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    That's pretty odd since skunking is caused by light. I suppose that if the brown bottles were sitting in direct light in a window that could have dinged it, but heat isn't going to skunk a beer.
    Now that you mention it, I had an H-B Helles last week and it was pretty spritzy. But I can even tell the difference between H-B and Spaten Helles without a label.
     
    herrburgess likes this.
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Heat very much damages beer; it is a staling effect.

    Lots of folks associate heat damaged beer with the term "skunking" but strictly speaking the "skunking" effect is due to expose to UV light.

    Matt, I got the overall message you sent.

    Cheers!
     
  17. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,339) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Yeah, I guess what I meant was that it seems apparent to me that this store leaves their beer out for long periods of time in both direct sunlight and heat and it was very much noticeable in their Löwenbäu stock.
     
  18. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I guess my own question was how it actually got skunked (if that's what you were, indeed, smelling) in the brown bottle. That seems a brewery problem more than a retailer problem.

    Nonetheless, no retailer should be leaving their stock in direct heat/sunlight.
     
    herrburgess likes this.
  19. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Although it's rare, I have had skunked beer in brown bottles. Green skunks much more quickly, but brown is not wholly immune.
     
  20. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Do you suppose that's usually due to what MJ experienced? Just far too much time in direct sunlight?

    I have to say that I've been lucky enough to have never had a problem with brown bottles.
     
    herrburgess likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.