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France plans 160% increase on beer tax

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by CASK1, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. CASK1

    CASK1 Savant (465) Florida Jan 7, 2010 Verified

  2. jlenik

    jlenik Savant (470) New Jersey Jan 22, 2009

  3. crusian

    crusian Advocate (665) Oregon May 14, 2010 Verified

    seems like some wine lobbyists may have had some influence here...
  4. Bluecane

    Bluecane Initiate (0) New York Dec 30, 2011

    Freedom fries!
    JohnB87 and jimmy666 like this.
  5. emannths

    emannths Savant (445) Massachusetts Sep 21, 2007

    The current tax is €2.75 per degree plato per hectolitre, or €0.05 for a 12oz 5% abv beer. This is one of the lowest rates in Europe, about one tenth the tax rate in the UK. A 160% increase amounts to an additional €0.08 per bottle. That's pretty darn small in absolute terms.
    Mavajo, Bluecane, tronester and 4 others like this.
  6. gtermi

    gtermi Champion (780) Texas Apr 21, 2010

    That's exactly what I was thinking
  7. DoubleJ

    DoubleJ Poobah (1,055) California Oct 13, 2007 Verified

    The change means the price of a beer will increase by about 20 percent in bars and supermarkets, said Jacqueline Lariven, spokeswoman for the French brewer's federation Brasseurs de France.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see total tax revenue from beer either stagnate or drop.
    hardy008, miketd and CBlack85 like this.
  8. So that would make €0.13 per bottle. Going by the first chart on the pdf you linked it would take France from 28th on the list to 9th. Not a small increase.
  9. JuicesFlowing

    JuicesFlowing Champion (975) Kansas Jul 5, 2009 Verified

    Well thank God I don't live in France.
    hardy008 likes this.
  10. emannths

    emannths Savant (445) Massachusetts Sep 21, 2007

    Also noteworthy: the excise paid by small brewers will be increased by only (or "only," depending on your POV) 80%. Source, in French.
  11. About time they noticed border-hoppers loading their vehicles with beer.

    As emmanths noted the increase is still tiny. Go to Scandinavia if you wanna see high beer taxes....ooof.
  12. France is a welfare state looking for more revenue. This isn't a surprise.
    hardy008, claaark13, bound4er and 3 others like this.
  13. dmeadows

    dmeadows Savant (310) New York Aug 6, 2002

    DoubleJ likes this.
  14. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Advocate (570) Colorado Dec 9, 2011 Verified

    Well if we didn't have a reason to dislike France before, we do now. But if that was the U.S., we'd have riots.
  15. emannths

    emannths Savant (445) Massachusetts Sep 21, 2007

    Riots for an extra $0.08 per beer? You probably waste nearly that much when you throw out your bottles instead of returning them for the deposit.

    There were no riots in Massachusetts when the state voted to apply sales tax to alcohol, effectively increasing the price of craft beer by at least as much (7%, or about $0.10/12oz bottle based on $10/6pk) as this increase in France.
  16. Fux

    Fux Savant (330) France Apr 20, 2011 Verified

    Welcome to socialism!:confused:
  17. Yeah because it's Massachusetts, the bluest of blue states that is used to high taxes. Try something like that in the mid-west or south and see what happens.
  18. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Savant (405) Illinois Nov 27, 2010 Verified

    Someone hasn't been to Cook County before.
  19. Your right I have not, please explain.
  20. JimKal

    JimKal Savant (390) North Carolina Jul 31, 2011 Verified

    You make a great point. On this site we have people who think nothing of buying expensive bombers. I like beer but it is a pleasure, not a necessity. As long as the tax isn't excessive, I don't have a problem with it.
  21. mcc1654

    mcc1654 Savant (380) Illinois Mar 20, 2011

    Duffman929 and PaulQuinn like this.
  22. It's still remarkably light taxation by UK standards! I'm used to beer jumping in price that much pretty regularly.Figure seem to show that it's elastic-increasing the tax doesn't reduce the total take. But that's an oversimplification, the supermarkets can mop up the increase but the pubs and clubs have to pass it on plus sales tax (VAT) based on the mark up.The tax take is falling from pubs but this doesn't show in the overall figure.
    Reasonable tax levels are fine by me-I'd rather pay higher taxes and get comprehensive medical cover and I get back as much as I pay in.But when it's high enough to put people off going to pubs that's not clever.
    harrymel likes this.
  23. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Savant (405) Illinois Nov 27, 2010 Verified

  24. mcc1654

    mcc1654 Savant (380) Illinois Mar 20, 2011

  25. maximep

    maximep Savant (265) New York Oct 23, 2009

    To my friends at La Fine Mousse in Paris,
  26. Yo vote for Obama this'll happen too amiright???
    ericj551 likes this.
  27. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    Nailed it Seth!

  28. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    Coming from a guy that lives in Kansas...:eek:
  29. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    As an expat who lives in France and works in the beer industry I can see both sides to what a lot of people are saying on here (this thread). Granted, the increase for the consumer isn't ungodly high, but it is still a large increase that takes what was a low percent tax and puts it into a higher category (as someone listed about #28 to # 9). We (retailers) will soon find out what this means in terms of our prices increasing and thus the consumers price increasing.

    Fact of the matter is that the government is trying to get additional revenue and with the help of wine lobbyists are picking on the little guy, beer producers. Now, if they really wanted to raise some money, just increase the tax on wine by a % or 2 and then you'd have some serious cash. That won't (at least not yet) ever happen in France...

    Additionally, I can't stress this enough to people; in regards to the price(s) in general, despite an increase, it's all relative. Depending on where you live, what you do, what you buy, things are more or less expensive and from my economic level/status everything seems to even itself out. I went from living in one of the most inexpensive cities/states (Tucson, Arizona) to living in one of the most expensive cities (Paris) in the world. Does this increase really phase me as a consumer, no. Is it the best way for the French gov. to increase revenue, no. Is it a step back for the beer culture in France, no. Does it suck that beer gets an increase in tax, while wine doesn't...absofuckinglutely! That's what bothers me the most.
    PaulQuinn likes this.
  30. The French are just a little protective of their wine industry! Is it a coincidence that mandatory date labelling of foodstuffs doesn't include wine? It includes beer and even bottled water (yes, even that has a "use by" date on it), but not wine.
    I will admit though to loving their wines :)
  31. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    "a little protective" understatement for sure...it's just another example of beer being overshadowed by wine in this country.
  32. JimKal

    JimKal Savant (390) North Carolina Jul 31, 2011 Verified

    You make some good points. Most things involve some kind of trade off. When I lived in Florida newcomers would say how they liked the low taxes and then complain when they had to hire someone to pick up their garbage. Services cost money and it can be frustrating when you are paying a tax and don't consider the service worthwhile - adults without children paying property taxes that support schools. But, ultimately, those schools benefit us all. My children are now adults and have been out of school for many years but I still support the local schools with my taxes. We, as citizens, have to make choices about what services we want and what we are willing to pay for them.

    I'm not sure where you live in France. My wife and I have made multiple trips to France and enjoyed both cities and countryside. I hope you enjoy that beautiful country while you are there. Bon chance.
    harrymel likes this.
  33. I'm happy to trade off more expensive beer and higher taxes in general because I feel they benefit me.I am free from the worries of where to meet expensive medical treatment .My wife has had a chronic ailment for the last 30 years, it has involved her with countless hospital visits, some operations , regular visits to the local physicians and continued medication, some of it expensive.The most expensive part has been the car parking fees. That's a pretty good trade off.
    Kuemmelbrau, harrymel and JimKal like this.
  34. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    Thanks, it's just an obvious observation that escapes most people. Like you said, lower taxes but complaining about the private trash pick-up. It's all relative...

    Live in Paris, traveled to a few regions outside of Ile-de-France, but not too many. So far, most of the traveling has been to other European countries. After those are crossed off the list, then we will begin to explore France a bit more.
    JimKal likes this.
  35. jimmy666

    jimmy666 Savant (250) Maryland Jun 20, 2010

    Murica, fuck yea!
  36. My Uncle was living in France and he's coming back so... He lived in suburbia Colorado for what it's worth. I mean sure Paris is going to be awesome but Murica has awesome cities too. Although French women...
  37. Fux

    Fux Savant (330) France Apr 20, 2011 Verified

    Hey! Keep your hands off!
  38. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    They're all yours Fux!
    Fux likes this.
  39. pixieskid

    pixieskid Advocate (670) Germany Jun 4, 2009

    I've traveled all over and Paris is certainly not my favorite place in the world, and yeah of course there are some awesome cities in the states, especially for beer. I've also go fairly specific tastes...I'd take Pacific City, Oregon over Paris; huh:eek:!?!?!