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Dark Lord Day 2012 Rule Changes

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Lansman, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. AlexHouston

    AlexHouston Aficionado (190) Illinois May 19, 2011 Verified

    In all seriousness though, people should be calling out line cutters at events like this, especially things like Darkness and Hunahpu Day, which I'm going to this week. If you think for a second I'm flying down for a beer festival and letting some jerks cut me in line and taking what I've waited longer to get without causing a scene, you don't know me very well. As matter of fact, I plan on talking to those around me about this very issue, trying to make sure we keep a fair playing field as evenly possible.
  2. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    No, I'm not giving you a ZJ.
  3. Wseitz

    Wseitz Aficionado (155) Illinois Apr 25, 2010

    I probably said this last year, but I actually think DLD'11 helped contribute to the problems with XV. At DLD '11, we were group C. We rolled in around 1:00 or so, walked right in, set up our spot, and had a great time. When it was time to buy our beer, everything was great. It went so well, actually (especially compared to '10) that we thought XV would go just as smoothly.

    At XV, based on DLD '11, I think we expected that at least entering the property wouldn't be a problem. At that point we could bide our time and decide when we wanted to get in line for Baller. But they completely screwed things up when they tied the entrance line to the bottle line, ESPECIALLY considering the even was sold as a party (which I assume is why the tickets were 2.5x as much) and not simply a beer release and associated gathering. They sold tickets to a party, and then wouldn't let you in to the party for which you purchased a ticket. Pretty ridiculous, IMO. There was nothing stopping them from doing one line for Baller, and one line for entrance. That was just a pathetic oversight on their part.

    Regarding this year, my sense is that one of the things they think worked well (speculating here) is picnic tables set-up throughout, which is why they probably aren't allowing chairs this year. Hopefully they don't set up the big tent like at XV, since I don't think they'll really need it, and all it does is take up space. Picnic tables/no outside chairs will allow them to control the traffic flow a little better, as opposed to having unorganized masses of people setting up shop wherever.
    phisigben likes this.
  4. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Had you been there a few years ago on DLD (08 maybe, someone help me here) when it was like 40 degress and raining sideways I bet you would have LOVED that tent being there ;)

    I do happen to agree though, don't see how the tent would work for DLD...IF it is similar to year's past.
  5. Dontcounttoday

    Dontcounttoday Advocate (560) Illinois Apr 23, 2010 Verified

    I don't know which was better for the general crowd, XV or DLD last year. XV had people standing in line for 4-5+ hours just to get on the grounds, which really sucks for those who needed to use the restroom or were hungry, or just wanted to try some of the beers in the beer tent throughout the day. However, it seemed that inside the grounds it wasn't very crowded throughout the day. You could easily find a seat, watch the bands, or just hang out. At DLD you could enter the grounds immediately which was awesome, but it was so overcrowded it took forever to get anywhere and all the tables were taken, leaving many sitting on the ground.

    I actually preferred how they did the XV because I am someone who gets to these events early enough to be near the front of the line. I hang out for the night/day in line trading and tasting beers and just talking to people is great. Then when the line started up I was inside in 10 minutes and got to spend the whole day not missing any of the special taps and enjoying that gourmet food they had. My friends who showed up just a couple of hours later than me were in line for 4 hours and I couldn't do anything for them. Sucked for them, but I had a fantastic time.
  6. aasher

    aasher Poobah (1,260) Indiana Jan 27, 2010 Verified

    Here's an idea, if you are waiting for someone to show up to share stuff with, go back in line to where they are. Do the whole tasting thing as you want. You can return to your crew when you're done, just don't bring the new crowd to the front with you.
    pschul4 and eyeenjoybeer like this.
  7. TapeDeck

    TapeDeck Savant (250) Illinois Mar 31, 2011

    If BA's want to make a consensus call that "If you call someone out for cutting in the line, I will back your play" then it shouldn't be a problem for the first 100 or so people at any of the big releases. There is NO WAY that people are going to be able to police the whole line. The line definitely does widen up at DLD, and that is BS. They could hand out the little numbered ticket things in the line and just have people turn them in as they walk through on ID check... it wouldn't be hard to square away all of the people who wait for several hours. It won't help the people who get there 90 minutes before open... but something is better than nothing.

    I admit it, I do think it would be nice if they did something to accommodate the people who are going to spend all morning in line. Those people are the ones posting the huge reviews, lists of beers shared, etc, and that's what's keeping the hype growing for a one day release thing. If it weren't for that, it would largely just be locals who come out to the events. Shit... maybe that'd be better anyway.

    Anyway, if BA's want to say, as a group, "I won't allow cutting" then we could easily eliminate it. But I know that 2 of the guys in front of me at XV were BA guys, and they let their friends cut in front of me. I know at least one of the guys behind me at XV is a regular here (I'd never met him before, but have seen him post since... and I won't call anyone out) came with one friend and a cooler, and he had easily 8 or 9 friends jump in line with him. Newer to beer releases, I just assumed that this was par for the course, and let it be. Had I known that it would turn into a clusterphuck, I wouldn't have let my brother and sister in law join me late. We've already made DLD plans to make sure that anyone who wants to be in line with us is THERE when we leave the house... so we're all driving in one vehicle, and I get to be group dad again, and not get drunk. Joy.
  8. Agold

    Agold Advocate (520) Pennsylvania Mar 13, 2010

  9. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    I understand the line cutting issue, but why the hell does it matter at DLD? Everyone is guaranteed a set number of bottles, and, last year anyway, no bottles were first-come, first-serve. The only way that cutting in line could possibly help someone at DLD would be to get into the brewpub, I suppose, but that doesn't seem to have been an issue for anyone in the past.


    Obviously line cutting sucks, but why complain about it in a DLD thread?
  10. Dontcounttoday

    Dontcounttoday Advocate (560) Illinois Apr 23, 2010 Verified

    I feel your point is valid if DLD is anything like the previous years, with the exception of just making the line longer for those already in it. However, if they choose to do it like they did the XV party, then it dramatically effects everyone in line. If you cannot even enter the grounds without being in the line, then you have no access to the food, restrooms, or beer taps. So every person that cuts in front of you increases your time to entry for everything. My friends who got to the brewery on time were 4-5 hours behind me from entering. By the time they got in, almost all the food was gone except hot dogs or something, which was an hour long line at that point. Also many of the guest taps they wanted to try were long gone. It was bad for them.
  11. MasterSki

    MasterSki Site Editor (1,085) Ontario (Canada) Dec 25, 2006 Staff Member Verified

    It matters if they do limited barrel-aged releases first come, first serve like at the XV Anniversary Party. You know there's -bal aged Baller Stout sitting in that warehouse somewhere...

    But hopefully you are correct and everything is pre-allocated or lottery style.
  12. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Yeah, I just don't see why they would do first-come, first-serve given how well the lottery tickets went over last year.
  13. EseLocoSS

    EseLocoSS Savant (380) Illinois Feb 2, 2010 Verified

    If I get tickets, I'm going to be in line early. I'll be bringing 5 or 6 blow up dolls with me to act as placeholders for my friends who are coming with but won't be in line early.
  14. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    I guess I just didn't interpret them saying they would adopt some ideas from XV as "we want to make everyone wait in line outside as long a humanly possible." My assumption is that this was more in reference to coolers and possibly tables set up inside the grounds.
  15. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    So by your rationale it is OK to make someone who was in line properly wait longer than they should for *anything*? Line cutting is BS, period. Yes everyone is allocated X number of beers but to say that justifies complete disregard for the people behind in line baffles me. So, even with lottery system....I see 3 people cut in front of me...the first guy wins lottery for a -bal and I don't...that ticket should have been mine....that doesn't matter?

    Good lord, there is ZERO POINT ZERO defense for cutting in line, ever.
  16. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Show me the part where I said line cutting was ok. I'll wait.
  17. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    You asked why the hell it mattered. It matters.
    biglobo8971 likes this.
  18. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    My point was that there's a time and a place to bitch about line cutting. I don't see how that involves DLD at all, as it's never been an issue there.
  19. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Line cutting has never been as issue at DLD? That is just incorrect. Has it ever kept someone from getting DL? No. Has it kept someone from getting a -bal? Probably. Has it meant someone had to bail before they got their bottles because line cutting was so bad they got delayed an hour and had somewhere to be? How do you know?

    I agree is is LESS of an issue that at XV, but to say "it's never been an issue there" is turning a blind eye to potential issues it has caused.
  20. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    I didn't realize we were playing the "what if" game. Also, how would it keep someone from getting a -bal? Assuming you don't know the order the tickets are in at the start (which you don't), and that the winning tickets were randomly distributed throughout the stack (which, we assume, they were), you still have the exact same chance that your ticket is a winner no matter what spot you are in line. That's just math.

    Again, there's PLENTY of opportunities to bitch about line cutting in various threads involving bottle releases. Doing it in a DLD thread makes no sense to me.
  21. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    So if you cut directly in line in front of me and your scratch is a winner and mine isn't that didn't keep from getting a -bal? I am pretty well-versed in math and THAT has nothing to do with math. Sure the odds are the same, but it CAN certainly happen (sure it could work in reverse and you not get a winner and causing me to get one). I suppose it helps line-cutters sleep better knowing the odds are they won't screw anyone, specifically.

    So is it off-topic to speak of line-cutting at DLD? You think so, I don't.
  22. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    You're trying to make a complicated example simple. Keep in mind there were also several lines once you got into the gate from which you could pull your scratch ticket, and that the person directly in line behind you would have to follow you to the same scratch ticket line, which is unlikely unless that person was part of your group, as other lines would probably be shorter.

    COULD it happen? Sure. COULD I win the lottery? Absolutely. However, the odds are not in either of our favor.
  23. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Aficionado (175) Illinois Mar 19, 2010

    And what if 3 people cut and you do get a barrel aged? Would that change your opinion? Jesus, so much butthurt. The guys behind me at the Hi-Fi release went on and on about people cutting. When I first got there, a guy was walking down the line counting. I was 73 or 74. All I heard for 2 hours was how all these people were cutting and we weren't getting any beer. When they handed out tickets, I was number 80. People need to chill out about this. Not everyone in a group gets there at the same time. It's not that big of a deal and something I expect when I'm in line. There's a difference between people meeting their group and people walking the line to find someone they know to get a better spot. A guy I know tried to do that at DLD last year and I told him no. They need to hand out numbered tickets as you arrive, and then call them in order. That would be the end of it, and hopefully the end of these whiny threads.
  24. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Not butthurt or whining at all, but you hit the nail on the head in your post. How is anyone to know if someone is "meeting their group" or is someone is just cutting? The very idea that either is ok baffles me. When someone arrives in a line then that is their spot. If someone sleeps in or whatever for three hours but has a "group" that got there at the front why are they entitled to go meet up with their group? I seriously am not understanding when that became ok and so accepted. Why wouldn't the people in front go back and be with their "group" when the last person arrives in that rightful place in line if it didn't matter? My only point here and I will stop posting in this thread about it is this : If it doesn't matter then why do people do it?
    kiwifuz and nanobrew like this.
  25. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Aficionado (175) Illinois Mar 19, 2010

    The sleeping in and meeting up 3 hours later is crap. I'm talking about the 20 minutes or so. The group a few behind me last DLD did the 2 people show up, 2 hours later 9 people show up. That's not cool. If people went to the back of the line to join the one late friend, how is that fair that other people get to jump ahead? If I remember my third grade etiquette, that would be a type of back cut, which is also frowned upon. To start calling people out when you really have no idea what that person is doing in line is just going to cause problems. If a friend from the back of the line walks up and sits down to taste some beer, are people going to start yelling? It's just a bad idea, and really childish. Reminds me of third grade.
  26. kiwifuz

    kiwifuz Aficionado (215) Indiana Oct 27, 2005

    The suggestion that line cutting hasn't been a problem at DLD in the past is hilarious. I don't think it has been AS BIG of a problem in the past few years when there were tickets, it's still a problem. Why should I get my beer any later, or spend any more time in line because someone has a friend that decided to show up later and wants to join the line? I do in fact remember years where line cutting caused the line not to move. I do remember allotments that were changed midway through the day and affected people that waited their turn. I remember way back around '07ish when it was the lions vs the gazelles. People totally rushed the doors when they opened them and people that had waited for hours were forced to just stand in the same spot to wait longer.

    Sure now there are tickets. Counterfeits aren't as easy because they aren't homemade on colored paper. Etc. But no matter what just wait in line. I don't care what your lame freaking excuse is. You get there, you join the line. Why do adults have to be policed? Why should that be 3Floyd's job? People need to grow up, be patient, and leave the sense of entitlement at home. Remember in elementary school when the creepy old lady watched the lines to make sure no one cut? You learned then, why does FFF need to hire her to watch you now?

    All of that aside: 3Floyds needs to fix the problems from the anniversary party. That line was just stupid. The ticket was sold for an event with chefs, bands, guest beers, and a bottle purchase; everyone should have had the opportunity to enjoy those things (unless they decided to arrive late). Whether there was a misunderstanding between FFF and their hired security/event people or not, it needed to be fixed when the problem became obvious. I saw brewery employees wandering around looking at the line around 3pm and they did nothing to get it moving inside.

    And no, showing up early won't fix it. Yes I understand that those that like to show up early were fine. The issue here is where does the earlier and earlier stop? It's like Black Friday. People shouldn't need to camp outside days in advance to make sure they can get inside during the event. Yes the earlier you get somewhere the earlier you get in. Fine. But if people are sold tickets they should be able to get in. We aren't all rushing for 30 TVs at Best Buy, we're entering an event we were pre-sold a ticket for. If you got there at 8am for XV, what would the line look like if everyone showed up just as early? Oh that's right, it would be just as long and have just as many problems. It's not rocket science. The line needs to move. Getting there early isn't an actual solution, it just makes it easier on the person that gets to the event early. The solution needs to come from the people causing the bottleneck at the top of the line.
    nanobrew likes this.
  27. kiwifuz

    kiwifuz Aficionado (215) Indiana Oct 27, 2005

    It reminds me of a kindergartener to think that it's okay for everyone's friends to come join them for a beer. Nope, get in line. If you are that attached to your friends and you can't be apart from them, then go to the end of the line with those people.

    It's like my friend the kindergarten teacher says: Unless you're going to ask everyone you just cut in front of if it's okay for you to go ahead of them, go to the back of the line. That's right, start all the way at the end where you belong and ask every last person. Better yet, just get in line at the end, drink some beers, make some friends.

    I'll guess you never received the "Good Citizen" award in school. Just play fair and have a good time. Don't be a douche filled with excuses that make you feel better about the fact that you're an entitled ass. (Not directed toward anyone specific, just EVERYONE that feels it's okay for him/her to cut. right.)
    beertunes and MordorMongo like this.
  28. MNPikey

    MNPikey Advocate (600) Minnesota Feb 27, 2011 Verified

    I've never been to DLD but we plan to buy tickets and come from Minneapolis. I was under the understanding that they sell tickets and that guarantees you the opportunity to buy 6 bottles. Is that correct? If not, why bother selling tickets?
  29. biglobo8971

    biglobo8971 Advocate (590) Minnesota May 6, 2010 Verified

    tickets=bottles. And once again, I will try to make it again. And I will have a beer for each of the BA's going back and forth in this thread. I have picked four. If your interested in it, message me or "conversate" with me and we can all share one, or two, or 14 dependent on the line cutters and when I arrive in line.
  30. Gritch

    Gritch Aficionado (210) Indiana Dec 26, 2010 Verified

    If I remember right it was only 4 bottles per ticket last year?
  31. kif

    kif Savant (275) Illinois Jan 4, 2012 Verified

    Yup 4/ticket last year
  32. MNPikey

    MNPikey Advocate (600) Minnesota Feb 27, 2011 Verified

    So all the fuss about line cutting means nothing other that having to wait in line a bit longer for bottles?
  33. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Aficionado (175) Illinois Mar 19, 2010

    Yes, because a beer event like this isn't about seeing friends and sharing good beer. It's about enforcing order and making sure you get your beer 5 minutes sooner.
    MarkIntihar likes this.
  34. MasterSki

    MasterSki Site Editor (1,085) Ontario (Canada) Dec 25, 2006 Staff Member Verified

    Wait - this isn't EfficiencyAdvocate.com? What have I been doing for the last 5 years?
    Vav and bpgpitt10 like this.
  35. Rempo

    Rempo Advocate (625) Indiana Jan 18, 2010

    If anyone thinks line cutting wasn't an issue at 2010 DLD (with tickets!!!), you're crazy.

    I still regret not cutting in line.
  36. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    What was the issue with line cutting in 2010? I have no recollection of it.
  37. backfat

    backfat Initiate (0) Indiana Dec 28, 2009

    luckily I was close to the front that year. people at the back of the line didn't get the full promised allotment, while rumors of line cutters and counterfeit tickets rushed through the line like wildfires. although, I bet there wasn't one person who opened up their letter from three floyds, took out their tickets, and thought. "that's it? these would be really easy to make copies of..."
  38. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Ah ok. I guess I was just too dumb and naive at the time to realize that line cutting played a part in it, but I was towards the back of the line and I do remember being one of the first to get less than the full promised allotment. Didn't they still open sales up at the end of the day as well? The whole day is hazy to me... can't imagine why. ;)
  39. beergurujr

    beergurujr Savant (435) Illinois Oct 27, 2003

    Does anyone have the balls to resort to a little physicality in order to stop line cutting? Noooooo. So put up with it, bend over to the bullies, and say "can I have a few more, sir?".

  40. backfat

    backfat Initiate (0) Indiana Dec 28, 2009

    Note sure about the end of the day sales. Part of the problem was that there was a "fake" line leading to no where on the other side of the brewery. When people realized this after the gates opened, everyone just sort of walked upfront of the correct line. It was just unorganized and people just said fuck it. The problem was easily fixed in 2011
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