Counterfeit Cantillon John Chris Nomad

Not doubting that this can happen through a trade I just like to think that traders are a little more respectable than that.

I've noticed many rare beers selling for hundreds on Ebay for years now from European sellers so I wouldn't immediately cancel them out of the equation. It should be even easier to create a fake over there than here.

I'm willing to sample both and let you know.

True, but for European Ebayers it is also relatively easy to obtain most of these bottles, so less need to counterfeit IMO. I am pretty sure it takes more time and effort to counterfeit bottles, than to drive to e.g. Chris to buy a whole bunch of bottles for example.

Anyhow, about the corks, I will contact cantillon about that and post the answer here.

All my bottles are also have 2011 cork dates and none of them have the label flaws discussed in this thread. So I am optimistic that they did, in fact us a variety of corks.

How much would one expect to clear per bottle under your method above? Im not saying it isn't easy. I am saying why bother with something so small and trivial. I realize that it is easier to fly under the "materiality" radar with these small antics but there has to be a point at which it is not worth it.

This reminds me of the people who have a good job, but end up losing it stealing stupid shit. I knew a guy who was responsible for taking all the empty bottles/cans to the recycling center. He was pocketing the cash every other time and ended up losing his 50K a year job over an extra couple hundred bucks. I guess the point I'm trying to make is people are stupid sometimes.

Sounds like this guy:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/23/1327219/sap-vp-arrested-in-false-barcode-scheme
Vice president of a multinational company, caught stealing $30K worth of Legos.

Lots of people get off on the thrill of scamming somebody.

But there really is pretty decent money to be made in fake beer with so many bottles selling for $50-$100 and up nowadays. You sell two fake $100 bottles per week and that is $10,000 per year.

No it's not, you really need to be subtracting eBay fees and the money spent on making the counterfeit. It's probably half that.

Also, I'm just curious, what are the tax implications of selling on eBay? I've never done it so I don't really know, but if you have to pay income tax on that (or risk an audit) that's another cost.

By law you owe tax on any type of income. So you would owe taxes on the amount over any expenses you incurred. The amount of money we are talking about here could easily be written down to a loss with very little tax code knowledge. The risk of an audit making less than 250K+ a year with out taking a red flag deduction is like getting hit by lightning.

Fair enough, I'm definitely not a tax expert.

Not eBay specifically, but in general out here (AUS) it depends on whether it is a hobby or business...hobby is occasional, business is regular and of a "sufficient" scale. Hobby isn't taxable. Business, of course, is with the taxable amount being income less related expenses incurred.

It's been a long and troubling day. Time for a good beer. Mmm... what shall it be?

Framboos?

Ebay fees are not that large at all. About 7%-8% at the $100 level, give or take a bit, assuming beer goes in the "miscellaneous" category. Call it an even 10% with PayPal.

So take CBS, which sells for $120. (plus shipping) Call it a generous $10 to make the beer (2 x FBS plus a bit of bourbon and maple), another $5-$10 for the label/bottle... That's $100-$105... minus fees still equals about $90. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to get it done a bit more efficiently.

2 x $90 x 52 = $9360 of pure profit. And that's not even talking about one of the more expensive bottles on the site. Kate goes for upwards of $100 for the small bottle, and would probably be even easier to fake. Hell, the Kate label actually looks like something somebody fired off on their printer at home. I'd be shocked if a Kate clone has never made it up there.

Yes, there are taxes at play, but I'm pretty sure scammers don't bother with reporting everything on their taxes. (I'm betting most honest people don't even bother reporting Ebay sales) Plus if you really wanted to turn it into a business, you could easily deduct time/effort/costs, and cook the books to look net-neutral.

Good idea. I could do that, but I would have to ask myself, would I feel right drinking a whole bottle myself?

I hear Cantillon makes this great new beer...it's called Nomad...wait, I forget. Something like that.

This could be the one:

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/461/9862

I've been looking at the label on mine tonight and also been wondering if my bottle is real? Apologies for the flash glare.

There is always a smart ass in the group when someone is trying to help out the beer community. And you have the artistic ability of a 4 year old. Ridiculous

might as well drink a Cantillon classic gueuze

Lighten up man. The artistic ability of a 4 year old was absolutely the point here.

Someone's drinking haterade instead of the usual hydrating beverage.

There are legitimately ass-holic posts and then there are light-hearted, genuinely funny ones that are not made at anyone's expense. That pictures falls squarely into the latter category.

This is why i don't drink sours

Wish I had a JCN to check... Willing to trade big for one though.

And there is always one grumpy fart. The absurdity of the "artistic ability" was the point. Maybe take off your top hat and monocle then step down off your high horse so you can see what everyone else did. It was nothing to be taken serious and was just something to add a little humor to a bad situation. I think you need a hug.

Judging by the back labels I'd say you are right. The real bottle looks like it was printed offset while the fake looks like a home inkjet.

This thread now officially has everything.

I'm so glad the original post didn't have the pictures.

Similarly to a lopsided ISOFT that gets tons of threadshits and bickering (but ultimately gets done thanks to the visibility), will this thread help a new generation of scammers dupe bottles?

Well now I know to print the black-and-white back label before printing the red-intensive front label, if that's what you mean.

And yes, it should help the scammers 'cut corners'.

I was just asking myself the same question. Tons of helpful information being given out, but helpful to both parties (counterfeiters and buyers/traders).

Probably not, I don't think any of this information was actually new to someone who was paying attention.

Well, that's why I said new generation. As in, people that read this thread and are now turning to the dark side.

I have some experience in prepress and printing and I learned some shit. I'd like to take the ol' Arbitrator-drinks-Black-Xantus-out-of-a-Narke-bottle prank to the next level.
Edit - it was a narke bottle, right?

I tend to doubt it - it's not rocket science. Though I'm not even sure it is a bad thing if it does happen. It would immediately hurt and ultimately destroy the Ebay market if it ever caught on. And the trading community generally does a good job policing itself - if anything, fakes leaking into the trading world would make everybody more cautious, which isn't necessarily a bad thing either. A vet willingly sending a fake out in a trade guarantees excommunication, and even done accidentally it raises questions about how they obtained the bottle. Then just proceed with caution when dealing with noobs, particularly with whales.

From what I've heard, yes.

i would like to thank everyone that contributed to this thread.. it helped me get through a crappy day at work yesterday.. hehe

I don't think there is a next level. My understanding is that Arbitrator is somewhat bitter about that experience. Then again, I was about 10 beers deep when he told me the story, so maybe he's not that bitter.