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Counterfeit Cantillon John Chris Nomad

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by JealousChalice, Jun 11, 2012.

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  1. I feel obligated to report to the community that, unfortunately, counterfeit Cantillon John Chris Nomad bottles exist. I have in my cellar a genuine JCN, and I recently received another "JCN" as part of a trade. Placing them next to each other, it was obvious to me. Look very closely at the labels. The authentic labels have razor-sharp graphics, whereas the counterfeit labels contain graphics which are granular and were printed on a high-quality printer. I confirmed this with Jean at Cantillon.

    MY OPINION: Since the JCN beer itself shares some similarity with Cantillon Classic Gueuze, it makes sense why JCN was selected to counterfeit; many people tasting it probably would think it is genuine. This might also explain why some of the reviews indicate that JCN tastes the same as Classic Gueuze.

    All of this makes me quite sad, actually.
  2. Where did the person you received it from get the bottle?
    TBCHopscotch032 likes this.
  3. DarthKostrizer

    DarthKostrizer Advocate (705) California May 13, 2011 Verified

    This is a huge problem in the beer industry. I know that it has happened with VE 02 and I'm sorry that this happened to such a great guy like you Chris. Personally I think you should call the guy out.
  4. Alpar

    Alpar Advocate (500) Kentucky Apr 13, 2009

    Please post High Res pictures, if possible.
    AleWatcher, jedwards, aasher and 2 others like this.
  5. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    I suppose it was just a matter of time. Sucks though.
  6. futura123

    futura123 Savant (340) California Jul 29, 2010

    Do you mind to post the pictures side by side and some zoom-in to details about the difference? In case I have only one bottle of JCN, how can I know if my bottle is counterfeit or real?
  7. Alpar

    Alpar Advocate (500) Kentucky Apr 13, 2009

    The counterfeiter should be called out or at least divulge where he/she received said bottle.
    rvdoorn and brystmar like this.
  8. sendsilk

    sendsilk Advocate (545) Florida Aug 31, 2007 Verified

    Thailand, the same places I get me fake rolexes and my wife's knock-off Louis Vitton purses.
    tacosandbeer and FUNKPhD like this.
  9. I suspect the bottles are genuine 2011 Cantillon Classic Gueuze that have been stripped of their original labels and relabeled with fake JCN labels. The cork indicates 2011 bottling, just as the genuine JCN does.
  10. Alpar

    Alpar Advocate (500) Kentucky Apr 13, 2009

    It really stinks that this is the route that "rare" craft beer is going. Luckily you didn't purchase the bottle or trade for that fake. It's also good that you had an authentic bottle to make a comparison. Sad day for craft beer, even though, I think, this has been happening for awhile now...

    However, it is awesome that you were extra'd a bottle of Classic Gueze ;)
  11. The dude who traded this to me is working on replacing the fake JCN with a genuine one. So I'll be make whole on my trade, one way or another. The thing is, if I hadn't had a genuine JCN in my cellar to compare it with, I probably would not have noticed the counterfeit.
    tacosandbeer likes this.
  12. brystmar

    brystmar Initiate (0) Texas Sep 2, 2009

    Reminds me of this fascinating article from the New Yorker about the Jefferson bottles (wine). Everyone feared this practice in thievery would someday permeate the beer community, and now it seems to have arrived. I feel for you, OP; please post details about how/where/from whom the bottle was acquired.
    Rempo likes this.
  13. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Still no pictures or info on where OP received his bottle...

    Without them, this warning isn't THAT helpful.
    oldp0rt, BrianTheBrewer30 and tewaris like this.
  14. Alpar

    Alpar Advocate (500) Kentucky Apr 13, 2009

    Oh, I thought you were extra'd that bottle. Sorry I am two pliny's in right now :)

    Glad the trader is trying/going to make it right.
  15. DavoleBomb

    DavoleBomb Advocate (635) Ohio Mar 29, 2008

    Can't wait for every new limited release having certificates of authenticity included with the beers.
    SpottedZombie and Alpar like this.
  16. More details will follow. I am giving the dude the opportunity to carry out his own due diligence before we out the source. He said he received it from someone in Belgium. I need to figure out how to post images here...
  17. brystmar

    brystmar Initiate (0) Texas Sep 2, 2009

  18. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Upload the picture to an image hosting site (photobucket, imgur, etc).

    Click the "insert/edit image" button on the posting toolbar.

    Paste the link into the pop up box.
  19. we all knew this was coming. That's a major league bummer, but with the increased value shame spiral going on these days it was a matter of time.
  20. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    What fire? I thought we were trading beer here.
    tewaris likes this.
  21. I took some photos of the fake label, but the counterfeit label is good enough where the photos I'm able to take aren't capturing the subtle differences. The naked eye is the most powerful tool here. I'm hoping that if you read my description of the differences, you should be able to recognize the fake. Look very closely at the label, particularly the "Nomad" text. The red and black areas should be pure, and the transitions from black to red around the letters should be razor sharp, with no granularity or pixelization. The rear label should have a pure white background with sharp black text, even the extremely small text here is sharp on the genuine label. The counterfeit rear label has a slight pinkish background with less sharp text, the smallest of which, down at the bottom of the back label, is just a blur. I hope that helps. Cheers
    tacosandbeer, ehammond1 and Alpar like this.
  22. I thought that was mean and edited. Rare whale trading is sketchy, IMO. Way too easy to fake. Wouldn't be surprised if this has happened dozens and dozens of times. Think of the profit margin!
  23. JohnGalt1

    JohnGalt1 Champion (895) Idaho Aug 10, 2005 Verified

    This is soooo very... very... sad.

    I wish the OP the best... and I hope his trading partner was duped too.

    That said, I also hope the OP puts his trading partner out here in the forum to keep other folks from getting the same treatment.

    I have been worried about this type of shit for years... Back when I first started trading, I was totally geeked out and my Father sent me an article about counterfeit Westvleteren. He is not a "beer guy" but stumbled across something and forwarded it to me. I assured him that this would never happen on BA. About a month later, I am pretty sure I received a growler of "Younger" that was not the real deal. I never mentioned it to the trading partner because I had no proof. A year or so later, I realized that Younger was a PITA to acquire (even back then). April growlers of "Younger"? Nope.... not likely. BTW, that trading partner is long since banned.

    Anyway... I hate that this has happened... Nothing but props and good karma to the OP.

    Cheers, Toby.
    afksports likes this.
  24. beerdweeb

    beerdweeb Savant (310) California Nov 28, 2010

    Why not just post the pictures? It would be interesting to see them side by side nonetheless.
    Exiled likes this.
  25. Spider889

    Spider889 Advocate (720) Ohio Mar 24, 2010 Verified

    So I am confused... a non-Cantillon bottle was relabled from a home printer and says John Chris Nomad on it? Shouldn't the labels be identical to ensure the hoax?

    Maybe I am just misunderstanding - hence the desire to see photos. Also, show a side by side as well as individual close ups (even if you only capture 1/4 of the label) as this ought to be able to show the differences you mention.

    Edit: at first the search from my phone wasn't pulling up the nomad beer page... finally found it and I understand now I think (this was a beer I hadn't heard of before).
  26. digita7693

    digita7693 Advocate (680) Germany Jan 19, 2010 Verified

    I think pictures would go a long way.
    Without it, I, like many others, am curious how you can be so sure.

    What exactly did you confirm with Jean at Cantillon?
    Could there be a variation in the printing from Jean (the chocolate store owner) and Chris (the beer store owner)?
    I know when I got bottles of Blabaer before Jeppe was putting the labels on himself.

  27. Can you show us some pictures?
  28. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Savant (455) Netherlands Jun 4, 2009

    Pictures or it didn't happen :cool: But seriously, if counterfeit bottles were made, it is a ******* disgrace. I agree with the other posters though, that if you post about possible counterfeit bottles, please provide the visual evidence (otherwise everybody can just bring stories into the world). Especially the differences in the rear label that were mentioned should be easily visible on picture, with nowadays technology :) (pinkish background, completely blurred small letters). Also, the real label is a bit shiny from what I remember. How is that with the fake ones? And for me it is also difficult to believe these counterfeit bottles originate from Belgium. There is no beer hype and secondary market like in the USA....
  29. digita7693

    digita7693 Advocate (680) Germany Jan 19, 2010 Verified

    Mar02x, Holland and rvdoorn like this.
  30. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Savant (455) Netherlands Jun 4, 2009

    shiny labels indeed. Mine look the same, my bottles originate directly from Chris. I think this topic is a hoax, nothing more nothing less. No pictures until now (even though with decent camera everybody can take a detailed picture, even with a mobile phone). Also the guy who sent the fake bottle to the OP didn't come out yet, and nobody else reported fake labels, although after this topic, most people checked their bottles. No email from Jean, nothing. Maybe the OP is home-printing the counterfeit labels right now to "prove" his point ;)
  31. I remember a guy asking for hi res scans of cantillon labels not to long ago and immediately thought of something like this happening.
  32. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Savant (465) New York Jun 7, 2005

    I'd imagine that he's probably sleeping right now.
    brystmar and afksports like this.
  33. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Savant (455) Netherlands Jun 4, 2009

    thats why I put a ;), was more meant as a joke. Just to be sure, I contacted Cantillon for this. Still waiting for their answer.
  34. treyrab

    treyrab Savant (455) California Aug 26, 2007 Verified

    How and why would Jean agree there are counterfeits of his product on the market, without solid pictorial evidence?
    beerdweeb likes this.
  35. BeRanger

    BeRanger Advocate (520) Michigan Dec 11, 2011 Verified

    I can't remember his name, just remember his avatar. I believe he was a long-time BA with activity - more for a collection and not for counterfeit but I guess no one really knows.
  36. Maybe he was already aware of counterfeit bottles and has seen them in person, especially since it appears the counterfeits may have come from Belgium.
  37. Tnudish

    Tnudish Initiate (0) Wisconsin Feb 16, 2012

  38. alcstradamus

    alcstradamus Savant (415) Iowa Aug 10, 2008

    Guys, enough with the witchhunt. The OP is not making this up, I received word of these potential counterfeits last week as well. I was about to trade for one and was informed by my trading partner (probably the same person the OP traded with) that he may have counterfeit bottles in his possession. He does not need to be 'outed' because he is not trying to screw anyone over here, he brought the issue to me first and is trying to get this solved with the singular source of all his bottles he purchased.
  39. sarro

    sarro Savant (390) Michigan May 12, 2009 Verified

    Or the OP, JealousChalice, simply described a low quality printed label to him and confirmed?

    It's not hard to imagine the difference without actually seeing it. Ever seen a Kuhnhenn label?
    thome50 likes this.
  40. rvdoorn

    rvdoorn Savant (455) Netherlands Jun 4, 2009

    So, why are there no pictures? It is too easy to just make a statement of this magnitude without providing any evidence.
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