Big Beer's response to craft: If you can't beat 'em, join 'em

Discussion in 'Beer News' started by dauss, Dec 13, 2012.

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  1. dauss

    dauss Pooh-Bah (1,730) Aug 9, 2003 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society

    http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/12/12/sabmiller-big-beer-craft-brewers/
    Quite a turnaround from what Graham Mackay said in a piece from June 4, 2007, SABMiller's Beer Baron Opens Up.
    I also wonder how macro beer tasted 30-40 years ago, when the IBU's were in the high teens.
     
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  2. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Holy Christ, this guy does not understand craft beer at all. Here are a few choice excerpts for the lazy:

    "For most beer, the proposition is emotional. It's not functional. The beer is not that different. And even if the beer is different, there are others that taste much like it."

    On whether he thinks craft beer will continue to flourish, "And I think it will become less fashionable. These things are fashion to some extent."

    "In a sense, what Tenth and Blake represents is a selling or a marketing organization oriented toward beers still in incubation mode. Once the brands become big, they can be handed over to the mainstream. Blue Moon is still handled by Tenth and Blake, but it's almost inevitable that at some stage in the not too distant future, you might contemplate moving Blue Moon out into the mainstream and just treat it as another brand."

    Wowzers.

    Even though I picked out what I thought were the good parts, read the whole interview. It is short, and lots of the things are gold, Jerry, GOLD!
     
  3. LMT

    LMT Initiate (0) Oct 15, 2009 Virginia

    The interview really didn't surprise me (but it was well woth the read). Any rep from BMC needs to publicly state that most of the growth in craft beer is due to trendiness, or anit-coprate feelings, or image, etc.

    If they actually admitted that yes, the growth in craft beer is mostly due to some really different AND better tasting beer being brewed, then they're just admitting that they sell an inferior product. No corporate exec is going to do that.
     
  4. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    I agree, for most beer, the proposition is emotional. I also agree that there isn't much difference between Miller, Coors and Tenth and Blake.

    I also agree that these things are fashion to some extent. How many people who like craft beer, also literally, wear it on their sleeve? (i.e. merchandise: tshirt).

    I also agree that Tenth and Blake is a marketing organization.

    I dunno, what was I supposed to disagree with? What do you (or others) disagree with about what he said?
     
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  5. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    He is talking about the proposition to craft beer being emotional, rather than based on it tasting better, which basically means that because craft breweries are the David to their Goliath, we are rooting for them and doing so through buying their products. He is not comparing Coors to Miller to Bud to Corona, he is comparing macros to craft and saying that there isn't much difference.

    He is essentially saying that because it is fashionable to like craft beer (or so he says), that it will also be ephemeral like fashion. Basically a rewording of the outrageously ignorant statement he made in the 2007 interview regarding craft brewing.

    Tenth and Blake IS a marketing organization. That is what's wrong with it. I don't think that Founders, Russian River, Dogfish Head, Lagunitas, New Glarus, or basically any true craft brewery are marketing organizations. They are breweries first. Their marketing is the quality of their beer, the word-of-mouth that stems from that, and the label that goes on it.
     
  6. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Well, maybe if they did that they could finally decide to actually brew something with taste in order to compete, instead of the same bland, carbonated refreshment they've been brewing for years and fighting what is most certainly not a fad with something other than defamation. This beating around the bush bullshit is annoying to those in-the-know and patronizing to those who aren't as wise.
     
  7. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    I didn't read it that way. He was asked about Tenth and Blake, and never mentioned 'craft' beer in his answer. He never mentioned Bud, Corona, David or Goliath. Those are projections made by some readers. Regardless of which beer he was talking about, beer does have an emotional connection.

    It is fashionable to like craft beer. The numbers don't lie, 13% increase in volume in 2011. Its 'fashionable,' and beer people literally wear said fashion. Fashionable isn't a dirty word. In general, people who like to think of themselves as non-conformists are unintentionally entertaining, as they all seem to conform in their mission to let you know they don't follow trends. Typical for all sub-cultures pretty much: goth, punk, metal, redneck, hip-hop etc. . . they all look the same, despite holding themselves out as anything but. Same with beer geeks.

    Even great breweries are involved in marketing. Marketing isn't a dirty word.
     
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  8. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Since Tenth and Blake is a faux-craft company and is being used to attempt to break into the craft market, I think it is quite clear what he is talking about, even though he does not just come out and say it. Your mileage apparently varies.

    I do think that fashionable is a dirty word to describe people who aren't in it for the fashion. I also think non-conformity is necessary for progress. Some people don't avoid conformity for the "fashion" or stylishness of it, they avoid conformity because they honestly believe that those following trends are ignorant sheep, and they believe that there is something better out there than what everyone else likes.

    When your company is set up as a marketing machine first and a brewery second, as is the case with Tenth and Blake, straight from the horse's mouth, there is a problem. That's what I was saying.

    It's pretty clear you're not reading into the article the same as me (and some others), and that is, of course, perfectly fine (especially given the ambiguity of some of his answers, but I suppose these are simply, good, safe, rote answers). I was just trying to explain to you what other people (myself included) feel is inherently wrong about this man's philosophy regarding craft culture and beer in general.
     
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  9. Palesmith

    Palesmith Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2010 California

    The only thing thing Mackay is good at "crafting" is the point of view that craft beer is really no different than BMC except for market share. Pretty good poker face, I must admit. If that was really the case, then the BMC's of the world wouldn't be trying to discredit, emulate and/or buy up the competition.
     
  10. nicnut45

    nicnut45 Zealot (649) Jan 6, 2007 Illinois

    If anything, I see big brands ruining the craft beer scene for any willing BMC drinker who wants to dip their toe into the craft brew world. They may give these knock off craft brews that BMC comes up with a try, but will resort back to macro's because there really isnt much of a difference between macro's and the new shit there trying to push.
     
  11. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado

    What's it like to go through life with blinders on, Mr. Mackay?
     
  12. LivingBuzzed

    LivingBuzzed Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2012

    Interesting point. I think that to some extent, craft beer is a fashion. But the product and principles will keep it going. Somebody once might have said that drinking California wine was a fashion too. But even though it's not the hot new thing, US wines have a permanent place in the market. The dust will settle, and the buzz will probably die down somewhat, but people will continue to drink craft beer. Organic food was a fashion a few years ago, and even though it's not all the rage anymore, tons of people are eating organic, sustainable, raw, and local now. The fashion may die, but a couple things won't:
    1) The quality of the product (although the macros can mimic the products to some extent)
    2) The principle of drinking local, U.S. made product will have continuing appeal. This is the same reason that whiskey, although still far behind vodka, is the fastest growing spirit class in U.S. consumption. In economic and environmentally "challenging" times, people try to help the environment by buying local, or at least domestic, as well as support the economy by supporting companies and products that keep jobs in the U.S.

    If ABI and Miller Coors had stayed headquartered in the U.S., perhaps they could regain a big chunk of the market. But even after this recession, people will continue to try to buy American, and, outside of heir branding, that no longer includes AB or Miller.
     
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  13. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Initiate (0) Mar 18, 2010 California

    This guy sounds like a butthead.
     
  14. mychalg9

    mychalg9 Pooh-Bah (2,061) Apr 8, 2010 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Society

    They would get a lot more respect if they just openly admitted the competition and welcomed craft beer with open arms to the playing field. Making ignorant comments just makes them seem like bigger buffoons.
     
  15. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    First, I like that we can have a nice civil discussion full of substantive disagreement without some dweeb hitting the report button.

    I just don't really care to bother much with other people's philosophies. It's beer first for me. What is kind of interesting is that you say its about beer first too, but then get upset about the marketing, the 'fashionable' statement etc. . . ; I don't care, its the marginal product that makes me go 'meh' at best to anything Tenth & Blake, which maybe makes me more sympathetic to why they would need to go on the offensive even moreso from a marketing/advertising standpoint.

    I still think holding yourself out as a non-conformist is a form of marketing itself, and usually accompanied by others who also conform to the same ethos and image of non-conformity.

    Hey if you're at least gonna paraphrase people, give 'em credit :wink:. (non conformity necessary for progress = "All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions." Adlai Stevenson). I don't necessarily think change = progress though.

    Here's one I like:
    "When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other" --Eric Hoffer
     
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  16. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I think you said it pretty well, but I'll also add that he was speaking to stockholders (existing and potential), not beer geeks. If you frame his quotes from that perspective, he "gets it" just fine.
     
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  17. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Holy shit. I didn't know I was paraphrasing anyone. I just put what I thought in words that made sense. Plagiarism is really easy to do on accident. Thanks for the real quote, writing it down now. The other quote is a good one I hadn't heard either.

    I agree that non-conformity has its own conformers, which is ironic and somewhat hypocritical, but going against everything just to be unique in your position is simply being an obnoxious contrarian asshat and does not have the value that challenging the status quo on grounds that you truly believe in does, but you clearly understand that.

    It is really interesting that we care about the same thing, but reached that conclusion through a completely different path.

    Good talk, BeerandRaiderFan. Sorry about the Raiders... Loyalty is admirable, though! Even though I'm from WI, I am a Titans fan first, so I feel your pain. Being a Pack fan second makes the load easier to bear, however.
     
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  18. savagewhisky

    savagewhisky Initiate (0) Aug 8, 2007 Virginia

    "We have our own craft brands. We also look selectively to acquire, or form partnerships with, or cozy up to people who have incubated good businesses. It's difficult for big companies to incubate small brands. That, at its heart, is the dilemma. To start a small brand in a credible, consistent, sticking-to-it kind of way is hard for big companies. That's what small entrepreneurs do best."

    This sounds to me like a really great opportunity for craft brewers/drinkers. As long as SAB Miller forms a sort of hands-off partnership with the smaller brewers this means that they be able to get their good beer (presumably) to a wider customer base. This seems like the smartest move that the big macro-brewers can make when the market is moving to tastier smaller batch beer. I know a lot of folks in the movement detest the idea of a craft beer being in leagues with a macro brewer, but I say what the hell? So long as the beer remains good it sounds win-win to me.
     
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  19. bdub32689

    bdub32689 Initiate (0) May 19, 2011 Massachusetts

    Its pretty simple you compare their words to their actions.

    aka publicly we want to distance ourselves from craft beer because its more a trend
    In reality we are hedging our bets and buying stake in craft breweries and creating new brands that appear at first glance to be craft.
    Bud Platinum is a direct response to liquors growing market as well as the demand for better crafted beers
     
  20. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,141) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Bud Platinum a better crafted beer? I respectfully disagree. And malt liquor drinkers are grabbing Four Loko, the brewer's answer to anti-freeze. Not a step up by any means.
     
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