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Beautification? What would it take to get?

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by loki993, Apr 18, 2012.

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  1. Brew33

    Brew33 Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2007 Ohio

    Wow, good one. My entire premise is that I've never seen it to this extent, how was that not clear? Anyway, you've obviously got it all figured out. I'm glad you laughed at dramatic, I'm also glad you didn't disagree with blowhard. Enjoy the rest of your obviously drunken evening.
     
  2. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    your premise is crystal clear... it's just obviously wrong. which means it's either disingenuous (most likely), or stupid (not that unlikely).

    ridiculous ISOs get posted every day, about every release. if you really think the beatification release was that anomalous, and it's not you trying to pull one over on someone, something is wrong with you. maybe you're committed to this opinion so you're arguing to save face on a messageboard? i'm not sure, but i don't believe for a second that a literate person thinks that "this is as bad as it's ever been."
     
  3. RandomName7

    RandomName7 Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Washington

    I have now come to the conclusion that Pahn is a troll. This is like the 4th or 5th thread I've read in the last week or so where he's jumped in a thread to tell someone how bad their idea is and then proceed to call them an idiot. Dude can't help but make personal attacks.

    As to the thread:

    Are people expecting ridiculous stuff in exchange for Beat? Yes
    Are people offering ridiculous stuff in exchange for Beat? Yes
    Are both parties walking away happy? Yes

    I definitely agree that to me, many of the offers for Beat are crazy, but it is what it is. Most of the people making the trades are perfectly happy with what they are getting. Yes, it makes it harder for me to make the type of trades for beat that I think are balanced, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be free to trade them for whatever they want.

    I do think people are correct in saying that OP should be able to get at least 1 or 2 beats for Kuhnehn stuff.
     
    Brew33 likes this.
  4. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    They have, I got an overwhelming amount of offers of people willing to get me some:slight_smile: you just can't assume that they're your lackeys and their time is worthless which is what every idiot asking for that has been doing. I also got a warning from the bros along with all the offers though:slight_frown:
     
  5. goodstrongbeer

    goodstrongbeer Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2009 Illinois

    1) Violate terms of service.
    2) Call people complying with terms of service, idiots.
    3) Profit.
     
  6. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Pooh-Bah (1,955) Nov 26, 2008 California
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Your Gots list has King Henry, which I put up an unsuccessful ISO for. What do you think is a balanced trade for Beatification, if not KH? Maybe your idea of "balanced" is too stingy.
     
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  7. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    Either he's hoarding it or he just likes it more than Beat so he's not willing to give it up for that. There's a lot of beers that are "balanced" and not getting it done because you guys would rather drink it. If I had a KH though it would be out on its way to you in no time, I hate barley wines and love beatification.
     
  8. RandomName7

    RandomName7 Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Washington

    Straight up, I had no idea how rare/valuable the BA hunahpus were. But strictly in terms of balance, I think there are combinations that would have more or less been fair (CBS + King Henry + EC18).

    I don't have the EC18 any more as I shipped it as an extra ^_^. But there are levels of fair.

    As for the KH for a Beat. I live in Texas, we do not get distribution of KH, I traded a pretty good amount to get the ONE bottle I have, so yes, I'm not going to trade it for another bottle that I already have 2 bottles of.

    With regards to the other post. I think 3 bottles of my 11 dollar sour that there were only 780 bottles of, for 2 bottles of Beat which cost 15 and there were 12000 bottles of is a fair trade to anyone who is actually looking to try new things. Admitedly it's not for everyone, and it's less known, so if someone wasn't interested and it's not for them. I understand. But some people are trying to trade beer to try new things, not maximize their returns.

    I fail to see where I am overvaluing my beer or demanding to much of anything. The first post mentions nothing about $4$ because I would have gone over it several fold. The second post I was trying to go $4$ sour for sour. Ananke is only $11 and comes in a 22oz and is delicious in my opinion. I think $4$ with it is fairly reasonable, if you don't, then kudos to you I guess?

    You can think I'm greedy or am hoarding all you want, but at the end of the day I'm here to try new beer and help others try new beer as well which is why I gave away 2 bottles of Ananke (1 to a local bottle shop owner who only drinks the stuff he distributes, and a second bottle on here in a ~contest) and why I've used things like Abyss and EC18 as extras. The site is called Beer ADVOCATE.
     
  9. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Pooh-Bah (1,955) Nov 26, 2008 California
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I disagree, as I have no interest in some sour I've never heard of. I've had other Freetail beers and I've found them forgettable at best. Just because it's limited and local to you doesn't make it desirable to everyone else. Sorry to be harsh about it, but if I have a limited trading / driving / time budget (and I do), I'm going to spend it on beers I'm actually interested in.

    I realized I misunderstood the $4$ omission, which is why I deleted my post. And it wasn't my intention to shit on your offer, just to point out that a balanced one (KH for Beatification) existed and you ignored it, because you value KH more. And on that, we agree: trading values are pretty personal.

    Since you've already managed to get 2 bottles in reasonable trades, I think you're being greedy. Just because there are 12k bottles available doesn't mean the ~50 to 100 traders that live within 2 hours of RR can personally mule you as many as you want. Do you often see people asking for 6 out of 6 Dark Lord bottle allocations? Those requests are presumptuous and annoying. Hell, I'd like to stock my own cellar, then regular trading partners' cellars, then past trading partners' cellars, and THEN I can think about being generous to strangers. I could make a dozen trips up there and still not sate my trading partners' demands.

    If I, as an adult, can understand that the limiting factor in King Henry trades is the per-person availability, then I hope you, as an adult, can understand that the limiting factor in Beatification trades is the per-person resources.

    I'm sorry... I can't help but laugh at the blatant dickwaving. :grinning: Do you want me to do the same so you can personally vet that a bunch of us are generous? Not everything is posted on the forums for you to inspect.
     
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  10. RandomName7

    RandomName7 Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Washington

    I understand your feelings regarding Ananke, but not everyone feels the way that you do. At the end of the day, Freetail and (512) and Jester King are the best bottles those of us stranded in Texas have available to trade. If everyone had the mindset you do, we would never be able to make trades since none of them are nearly as well known as the Big Breweries. (I make plenty of trades, so clearly not everyone agrees with you.) I think I've already traded out something like 6 or 8 of the bottles of Ananke I got all across the country.

    As for the King Henry, I honestly agree that Beatification is the better beer, and if I had more than 1 I would gladly do it, but I would still like to age this KH a bit and then drink it, so to trade it away for a Beat knowing that I would have to go through just as much effort to replace the KH as it would take to get a Beat to begin with makes no sense. Why make 2 trades when I can wait and make 1?

    I got 2 bottles in 1 trade, I was hoping to get 6 bottles eventually so that I have enough to save 1-2, drink 1 all by myself to really get to enjoy it and a few to bring to a tasting and allow everyone to get a good pour.

    I also said 2-6, I understood that most people wouldn't trade that many, but to get 6 bottles 1 at a time would be a lot of trades and packing and whatnot, just isn't cost effective when you factor in likely going over $4$ for each, extras and shipping, just can't justify it no matter how much I want it. I have also in subsequent offers stated that I would greatly go over $4$ for trades with multiple beats for the sake of compensating for the convenience. I am also well aware that many people went with several mules and walked away with cases of Beat, I figure at least a few of them have to be open to trading...

    I just don't quite get how I am being greedy? I'm sorry I don't have a trading partner that lives near Russian River, but I'm asking not demanding and my terms are extremely broad... I'd love many bottles, but I understand that it's unlikely to get that many, I fail to see how it's wrong to ask. I'm well aware of why it's taking me time to get deals worked out. If I am being greedy, then what do you call the guy who offered me a Beat for a 2010 Darkness AND another beer? The Darkness cost more and is aged a year. I could have understood if they wanted to expand to add locals on their end to get 1-2 bottles of better stuff on my side, but they wanted 2 for 1 straight up.

    I would also like to point out that the allocation of Hunahpu's was 2 per person this year and I saw a number of threads where people wanted 2-3 bottles.

    As to your final statement, the issue with KH for me specifically may be that I only have 1 bottle, but there are a number of people who have many bottles of KH, it literally sat on the shelves for weeks/months in some places. The issue with trading Beat for KH is some people just don't like sours and love KH. People are also more or less prospecting.

    Regardless, the limiting factor of Beat is not resources, it's willingness and capitalism. If it was about resources, I would have people offering to get me some Beat for bottle cost + gas + a meal + shipping. I don't see people doing that. No one wants to help someone out just to help them out, and truthfully I don't blame them. Capitalism is King. If I had access to a beer where I could pick up 6 bottles a day and trade it for practically whatever I wanted, I can definitely understand why I'd want to take advantage. I honestly probably would do the same thing myself for a few trades, but just because I understand it, and just because I might do it, doesn't mean that I don't see the ridiculousness of it.
     
  11. slaphappysnark

    slaphappysnark Initiate (0) Mar 9, 2011 California

    Resources include time. A meal would be a great deal for someone who is just going down the street, but for most of the Bay Area folks, it's at least a 2-hour round trip, and that's if they can make both ends of the trip during low-traffic times.
     
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  12. rmalinowski4

    rmalinowski4 Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2010 Illinois

    I would love to find a mule and would not have a problem paying someone for their time and effort, what do you think would be fair? Ideally I would like a case (15x12=$180) + shipping (25-35) + time & effort (60) = $275. Would that seem fair? Could I find someone to do it for that?
     
  13. futura123

    futura123 Initiate (0) Jul 29, 2010 California

    I think there is an offer somewhere 6 for 6 Beat (you pay for 12, they send you 6) and there is no taker. So, your offer seem fair if you only expect to receive 6 bottles of Beat and pay the same amount. Anyway, I believe this kind of offer violated the term (not beer for beer) since the last post has been deleted.
     
  14. bauermj

    bauermj Initiate (0) May 4, 2009 Illinois

    Can't imagine $60 will cut it to cover Gas + Opportunity Cost (driving 3+ hours r/t from San Fran just to not bring home any bottles of a great sour for yourself; packing & shipping time) for two people but I guess you never know.
     
  15. rmalinowski4

    rmalinowski4 Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2010 Illinois

    this is hypothetical, just a question on what it would take to get it done, not an actual offer. Should of worded the question better.
     
  16. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2010 Indiana

    It was strange to see so many 'pick-up-ship-and-i'll-pay-you' requests. If I had been of that mindset, I would've done it on Craigslist, found a super-local (riskier, I know...), and gotten 6-bottles/day until it ran out.
     
  17. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Pooh-Bah (1,955) Nov 26, 2008 California
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    That's my point. Trading values are personal.

    How many people does this describe? It sounds like you've created some artificial surplus in your head to justify what you are asking for.

    Asking for most of an allotment is greedy. Claiming, "Well, people have multiple allotments" to justify it doesn't change that. You are actually making the presumptuous argument that because you couldn't get people to grab you unlimited bottles of something, they are withholding. And suggesting that people owe you a trip up to get you bottles at cost is greedy. I'm flabbergasted -- I rarely see such naked entitlement.

    Those are also greedy.

    Time is a resource.

    Why would they? What stranger owes you a 4-hour beer run?

    Regardless, those offers have been made:

    I made that offer here.
    abecall did that a bunch of times.
    leschkie did that here and here.
     
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  18. Pahn

    Pahn Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2009 New York

    in almost all cases, offering to 1) pay for someone's transit, 2) allow for them to end up with some of the beer themselves, 3) give them some money on top of it, when 4) the beer is still readily available, i would imagine there will always be takers unless the ISO is taken down too quickly for violating the TOS.

    ---

    re: above comment about me being a troll, i'm not trying to get a reaction from anyone (p.s. look up what trolls are). i'm merely stating the fact that people asking for a lot and arguing about which locale Has It Tougher has been par for the course for years. totally preposterous to claim that you've never seen anything like this if you've read trading forums. by the way, when i accused him of being disingenuous or stupid, i was accusing him of being disingenuous (those are the only 2 possibilities; the stupid part is argument for the disingenuous part... put it together).

    going further, anyone with a brain should see that public declarations of "OMG what these traders are asking is OUT OF CONTROL, OH NO!" are either crass, gross attempts to drive down value (like beer trading is the stock market and you get to buy a boat when you win in the end, durrr), or butthurt whining about some beer you want that you can't get (boohoo).

    ----

    edit: for some boring forum sociology, it's generally the out of staters accusing the people in the beer-release state who are butthurt and jockeying for position, while most of the people with the beer are reacting to personal attacks. of course this isn't always the case, but it's the pattern i've noticed, be the release in cali, michigan, florida, new england, etc. if you ask for more than i want to give, you're a hoarder. if you say "no i'm not a hoarder," you're butthurt (and a hoarder). this is the way the dialogue seems to go.

    re: double standards that levitation and arbitrator talk about, those exist but are employed explicitly to drive down value and trick people out of beer. i wouldn't trade locals for locals with the people who do that bullshit.
     
  19. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2010 Georgia

    There is one BIGGGGGGGG flaw in your equation...you're evaluating people's time at 0 dollars and forgetting that this release has left people broke and basically expecting them to be your lackey for a meal:astonished:. Does it really surprise you that no one is doing that? I'd tell you as politely as possible with that equation to go fuck yourself unless I lived within 10 minutes of the brewery. I actually valued the time someone else was taking out of their day to drive to RR and the time it would take them to pack my bottles and ship them to me and *gasp* my inbox imploded. My offer was the one they're talking about above but it was against the TOS so I got a warning from Todd and my thread was deleted.

    My offer was you plan to go to RR and let me know ahead of time how many allocations you can get. I will send you the $ beforehand to pay for all of the allocations but you keep half and I keep half, so my generous proxy gets free beatification as my gratitude. I also pay for shipping. My beats came out to 30 bucks a pop, I got 6 in one shot and it was well worth it since the beers I would've traded for it would've come out to about that much for a bottle of beat anyways and then add all the shipping and extras.

    Keep undervaluing people's time by expecting them to take a few hours out of their day for a meal from a stranger...they aren't homeless people so no, no one's gonna help you out with that offer. Your offer is the type a friend/trading partner would gladly do but a stranger for another stranger when they're already broke and fed up with packing boxes and driving? Ha, you're funny
     
  20. RandomName7

    RandomName7 Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Washington

    I should have been more clear, when I say meal, I mean a real meal, like a $60 steak dinner, not effing McDonalds...

    I think $40-60 + Gas(which is probably anywhere from 20-60 depending how close they are) on top of 90 for bottles and 30 for shipping is fairly reasonable. But the more I think about it, that's 6 bottles for around $250 which is bordering on eBay prices.
     
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