Blonde "stout"

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by danedelman, Jan 31, 2013.

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  1. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Trying to make a "whoa" type beer here and didn't know if anyone can give suggestions. I know a stout is dark but want to get those chocolate/roasty/coffee flavors in a blonde or light SRM ale. Thinking of using white baking chocolate so it's no sweet and just trying to figure out roast without darkness.

    Any suggestions welcome please!! Also trying to get a friend of mine who loves black coffee and says " I don't like dark beers" on his way down the stout path. Thanks!!
     
  2. kbuzz

    kbuzz Initiate (0) Jan 22, 2011 North Carolina

    This is so counterintuitive that I can't wrap my head around it. I have no suggestions. However, I would love to trade you some of my homebrew for a bottle of this if you make it happen...good luck!
     
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  3. TheMonkfish

    TheMonkfish Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2012 Chad

    The only way I could think of doing this would be to add some coffee extract to secondary and use some smoked malt alongside pale malt - that could be really tricky to pull off with the right balance and not come off too artificial (tasting like factory coffee.) I don't know if this would make more of a coffee rauchbier or a blonde stout - this is some serious offroading here. :slight_smile:

    Cool idea.
     
  4. kbuzz

    kbuzz Initiate (0) Jan 22, 2011 North Carolina

    I know it's not the most desirable way to get flavor in a beer, but maybe some sort of extract could work? You wouldn't have to use much, so color wouldn't effect anything...vanilla/anise, things of that nature? Also maybe aging on white oak? This is like a damn mind puzzle for me right now...

    EDIT: Monkfish beat me with the extract idea...also, I've had a solid Smoked Berliner Weisse before, so smoke and pale can happen successfully
     
  5. kbuzz

    kbuzz Initiate (0) Jan 22, 2011 North Carolina

    maybe even just a short step in your mash at higher than desirable temps to extract some tannins could fake someone into getting an astringent bitterness/roastiness?? I don't know...just brainstorming...
     
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  6. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Great idea with extract. Not sure if I want smoke though(just to be complicated I know). I like the anise and vanilla though. White oak awesome too. Keep 'em coming.

    Looking up white or bleached coffee now. It will be wild and sure to turn people into stout drinkers all over.
     
  7. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,274) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    The word barleywine came to mind before reading your entire post. I don't know how you're going to get. The roast flavor without the roast malts. Smoked malts are similar, but still not in the same ball park really. Let us know how it goes, I would like to hear your results!
     
  8. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Like a lot. Maybe even do a mash out at boiling to do that too. Or add some fresh grain and scald the crap outta that and release tannins that way.
     
  9. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Looking to have SRM's below 10. Just to up this challenge.
     
  10. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Maybe roast hazelnuts or pumpkin seeds and run water through them first. Lightly roast as both start pretty light in color but could impart a strong roast without the color.
     
  11. WickedSluggy

    WickedSluggy Savant (1,105) Nov 21, 2008 Texas

    Sounds like a new verse to Scarborough Fair...an impossible request. These flavors come from melanoid compounds that are dark by their nature.
     
  12. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,331) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Have you read the ingredients on white chocolate? It's just cocoa butter, vanilla, sugar, and emulsifier. I wouldn't add it to beer.
     
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  13. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I think that you need to change your avatar to something w/a BrewDog theme.

    I do wish you luck.
     
  14. stakem

    stakem Grand Pooh-Bah (4,070) Feb 20, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    ok, i wasnt going to respond to this but since you are from Easton and a fellow Pa native i guess I will toss some ideas into the ring.

    you are basically chasing a dream/idea/joke that stone released as an April's fools joke a couple of years ago. I took it upon myself to try and formulate a recipe that could legitimately create roasty flavors without actually having a dark color and this is what i came up with. it might be a pipe dream, but if you take these ideas into consideration u might be able to come up with something

    use vanilla beans. that is a flavor that really exaggerates chocolate in a brew. white chocolate would help in delivering the thoughts of chocolate flavors to an extent as well as nibs or raw cacao. something like a very mild roasted chicory could help drive home roasted flavors without the srms that would be imparted by black patent or coffee itself. again, i dont know how readily available chicory is and if it can even be kilned to a degree less than your typical coffee bean is but it would be worth a try. all of those flavors make me think roast/dark chocolate without any color being imparted. i think the only other way to drive home these flavors would be to go an artificial route... licorice root maybe or licorice extract gives the thought of roast and "darkness"

    edit: if you use chicory, it might drive home the flavors you are looking for of roast/coffee however your brew might end up in the golden or copper color spectrum and not blonde or white
     
  15. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, the roast comes from a char on the grain. I'd wonder if an extract would get you there, but I'm going to refer you to google for coffee/chocolate extract that may be clear in color if you're lucky.
     
  16. danedelman

    danedelman Initiate (0) Apr 3, 2011 Pennsylvania


    Actually just read that about cacao nibs and have used them before in a porter I did. I am going to just mess around when bored roasting random things without bringing mallards effect into play and taste. Then add to a beer that will have a thick body. Will let you know what I come up with. Thanks for the tips and glad I am a native PA'er now.
     
  17. ehammond1

    ehammond1 Initiate (0) Jul 4, 2008

  18. Gueuzedude

    Gueuzedude Pooh-Bah (2,830) Aug 21, 2003 Arizona
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Just FYI, as most of you probably know, Stout, in the historical sense just meant strong beer. So there is in fact a historical basis for Stouts that are not dark in color.

    With that said, Coffee is likely your best option. Counterintuitively Coffee does not contribute much in the way of color (see this beer), and is a good way to get roast character into a beer. Coffee extract might be another way to go.
     
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  19. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    De Dolle Stille Nacht has body. I'd say it's close to a blond. As a reference I'm pretty sure it's 80% plisner and 20% sugar. Maybe that could be a framework for your base???? Just thinking out loud here. Well maybe not a blond, but not a stout.

    Do I recollect something about pH and color?
     
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