Homebrewing IPA just like Pliny the Elder

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Hossenfifer, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    There are a few listed in IPA by Steele.

    I think the one Barfdiggs quotes are in Hops by Heironymus.
     
  2. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated


    Correct.

    Most likely not the same bottle due to the difference in geography between the two sources of the measurement... White labs measured it at 140 IBUs, and the Brewing School at the Catholic University at Leuven measured it at 96 IBU. Different labs, different beers, different results... pretty much par for the course. Depending on how its done, the organic extraction on acidified beer with iso-octane, can be fairly variable, as can the actual spectrophotometric measurement depending on the spectrophotometer used and where in the linear/non-linear range the measurement is performed.

    The new hops book is a great read, BTW, if interested.
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Yup, in the IPA book Stone Ruination IPA is listed at 105 IBUs.

    From a web search:

    “The Ruination IPA is similar to Stone’s standard IPA, but they have added more and varied hops and more alcohol. The beer is measured at over 100 IBU’s (International Bitterness Units), and very little sweetness is added to offset the resulting bitterness.”

    Cheers!
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    The percentage differential of 120 and 98 is 19.5%.

    You stated: “Depending on how it’s done, the organic extraction on acidified beer with iso-octane, can be fairly variable, as can the actual spectrophotometric measurement depending on the spectrophotometer used and where in the linear/non-linear range the measurement is performed.”

    So, does the IBU assay have an accuracy of something like 20%?

    I have no idea whether Mikkeller 1000 had multiple batches. It seems to me that two different bottles from the same batch shouldn’t have a large variability of bitterness.

    Cheers!
     
  5. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California
    Deactivated

    I haven't done any IBU determinations since my undergrad, so off the top of my head I don't remember what the standard error (Precision of measurement) or standard error of the mean were for my determinations. From an assay development standpoint, 20% error is unacceptable; with current spectrophotometric assays I use for graduate work, they're on the order of 1-5% standard error, 0.5-3% standard error of the mean (Assumes the mean you measure isn't the true arithmetic mean, so divides standard deviation by the square root of the number of measurements).

    I believe there have been multiple batches of 1000 IBU, however since the IBU measurement was devised back when hop quality was lower (more oxidation products, beta acids, etc.; 5/7ths adjustment), if the measurements were far apart in time, and/or shipping temp differences, etc. there could have been some degradation products formed, that on top of experimental error/variability, operator error or variability, etc. might have further squewed the measurements. There was no experimental error mentioned in the book, so I assume they only did each measurement once.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    “I believe there have been multiple batches of 1000 IBU …” That has to be the explanation for the wide variation in numbers (I hope that is the explanation).

    Cheers!
     
  7. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,271) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    The World According to Vinnie.
    It's his recipe.

    I'd BM you the PDF but the Bros won't oblige.
     
  8. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    See what you guys did to this poor guys thread!!
     
  9. kjyost

    kjyost Initiate (0) May 4, 2008 Canada (MB)

    I assume you mean that they gave him a recipe and some experience before devolving to a separate discussion:slight_smile:
     
    sergeantstogie likes this.
  10. sergeantstogie

    sergeantstogie Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2010 Washington

    Here is a blog I check once in a while. I really like what he is doing. http://www.bertusbrewery.com/ he claims his Pliny version is "Cloned".
     
  11. PangaeaBeerFood

    PangaeaBeerFood Initiate (0) Nov 30, 2008 New York

    Remember the most important aspect of Pliny - Freshness. We all know that Pliny only has an ideal shelf life of 35.26 minutes. Don't even bother bottling the clone, just drink it from the fermenter. Drop a big crazy straw into the carboy and slurp away.
     
  12. yinzer

    yinzer Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2006 Pennsylvania

    I'm sure that there are, but I think that people get too wrapped up in IBU's. I'm pretty sure that two instances that come to mind are interviews of Colin Kaminski and Matt Brynildson. When they say what the beer in question tested out, they really do sound surprised that it was as low as it was. I believe that Collin's take-away was that he's probably wasting money on hops. I've never had any of Colin's beers, but I'm sure that they are bitter enough. I know that FW'ers are.

    Last weekend I had "Lawsons Finest - Jade". I'd like to know what that tested at. I found it a bit too bitter for my taste, but I was a good bitterness. As soon as the bitterness hit you there was an immediate very pleasant hop flavor to accompany it. I'm sure that it's freshness played a key role, but that type of hop flavor can only come from process and not by simply adding more hops.
     
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